New way to avoid Pattern Day Trader PDT rules

Discussion in 'Retail Brokers' started by chris500, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. chris500

    chris500

    That sounds ridiculous. I'm pretty sure you can always exit a position with a market order and execute at the NBBO. It's a very low risk trade for them: they execute your order at the NBBO and then immediately liquidate their position at that same exact price at another exchange. They might even get paid for the order flow. Then they collect the $1 order fee from you.... And on top of that they charge a $1 per month fee and they're most likely collecting interest on the money in your account.

    If I was 18 and undercapitalized (as all 18-year olds are), this place would be perfect to learn to trade. Everybody needs to blow up a couple times and learn the hard way. This place is perfect for some young kid with a couple bucks to learn the markets fast and blow up his small account instead of a $25k account.

    I started trading when I was 15 and spent my teenage years winning big, losing big and blowing up. Those were very formative years and the lessons I learned is what eventually made me a profitable trader. Because I tasted the highs of winning at such a young age, that's probably what kept me going through difficult periods later in life. I was able persevere and attempt something so stupid and difficult as being a consistently profitable trader.
     
    #21     Jul 10, 2018
  2. Sig

    Sig

    Wait a minute, you're saying the exchange takes the other side of the trade? Not sure that would pass muster with the SEC, let alone be a place you'd want to go anywhere near!
     
    #22     Jul 10, 2018
    d08 likes this.
  3. LS1Z28

    LS1Z28

    You can't transfer positions in our out of ustocktrade. I'm not even convinced you're trading real shares with them. It seems more like a peer to peer network where you trade imaginary shares.

    www.reddit.com/r/Ustocktrade/comments/7uzhzq/limited_liquidity_aker/
    This thread describes the limited liquidity problem. If the superusers don't want to fill an order, you're stuck waiting for someone in their network to step up and take the other side of the trade. Obviously this could be disastrous in a volatile position.

    I've never used the platform. I'm just going off what I've read. It might not be as bad as it seems. It just seems too shady for me.
     
    #23     Jul 10, 2018
    MoreLeverage likes this.
  4. chris500

    chris500

    Yes, look at message #3 in this thread, where I posted the quote from the customer agreement.

    Part of the quote:
    "I understand that Ustocktrade Securities, through its proprietary account,
    is currently the only broker dealer acting in the capacity of super user on
    the Trading System, and that other broker dealers may be approved as
    super users in the future without notice to me."


    2nd point: it's not an exchange, it's a dark pool/ATS. Big difference.
     
    #24     Jul 10, 2018
  5. chris500

    chris500


    I guess stock daytrading really is dead and PDT killed it, because so far not one person on this forum has mentioned using this place or shared their experiences.

    I don't see how anyone would have problems with liquidity, unless it was a thinly traded stock. This place exists so that they can make money, of course they want to fill your order, they get a fee from it.
     
    #25     Jul 10, 2018
  6. LS1Z28

    LS1Z28

    Ustocktrade wouldn't really be that bad of a setup for avoiding the PDT rule if the superusers guaranteed filled market orders. But they can choose not to fill orders if a stock is too volatile. I hate the idea of being stuck in a volatile position with no way to exit.

    Most people that want to day trade with an account below $25K use an offshore broker like Suretrader or Tradezero. I don't think Tradezero accepts US accounts though.
     
    #26     Jul 10, 2018
  7. Sig

    Sig

    Not really a big difference in a couple areas, like that we don't expect self-dealing in either one and it's equally detrimental in either one. Is there another ATS where the ATS owner trades on their own ATS? And they're the only market maker? Crazy.
     
    #27     Jul 10, 2018
  8. d08

    d08

    I daytrade as do many others. Obviously I would never do it with less than 25k and never have. PDT is irrelevant for the majority of traders.

    The visible market has liquidity problems if you are doing any size, never mind some corner-operator-wannabe-dark-pool.
     
    #28     Jul 10, 2018
  9. Turveyd

    Turveyd

    Pushed all us poor people like me to Forex Spot accounts or if richer Future accounts.


    Just reduced my margin from 200:1 to 30:1 FX and 20:1 which is a show stopper, moving to an Australian Broker then Futures when 10k+ i guess.


    Arseeee!
     
    #29     Jul 12, 2018
    coplii and ElectricSavant like this.
  10. The old days we'd have called that a bucket shop, given the only one on the other side is the CEO's trading company. But guess if you do the SEC paperwork, you're an ATS and that sounds more reputable.
     
    #30     Jul 14, 2018
    d08 likes this.