First, nobody is going to do the work for you. Most important thing to do is to learn to do the work yourself. This means using your own grey matter, not trying to copy out of a book, website, course, forum, etc. Develop your own understanding, do your own research. If you start trying to apply "price action" methods, indicators, "technical analysis" learned in a book you're going to wind up wasting time and perhaps ultimately your capital. If you want to listen to others, make sure they are the right people. Practitioners. Those who work for or run investment banks, broker dealers, hedge funds, proprietary trading firms, or successful own accounters with years or decades of experience. These people will decide whether you are worth trying to help, if you should cross their path. Be honest, humble, diligent, and grateful. There are many people who will give a young aspirant some guidance. (caveat: many of the employees in this industry also know very little outside of the niche or edge used by their employer, most couldn't make it on their own) I'm not suggesting that you contact these people, but I'm going to list 3 traders at ET who have given me very helpful advice and guidance off forum. Each are seasoned professionals with minimum 7 figure career P&L. The purpose of posting these traders is so that you can compare their style and substance to "Monday morning quarterbacks" who aren't successful but have thousands of posts where they tell others their trading strategy and create guru personas. Regrettably, these people do not post regularly, simply because of the environment created by the majority of (unsuccessful) posters who hate to think for themselves and attack what they perceive as threatening. nokomisjeff - own account trader for 30 years, owns multiple exchange seats. If you ever get to speak to someone with decades as an exchange member, listen to what they say. garachen - runs a manual trading team and HFT firm. Institutional background, owns multiple exchange seats, very bright and helpful man. Rearden Metal - one of the biggest equities traders at Schonfeld Securities back in the boom, used to post six figure P&L blotters here fairly regularly (which were confirmed as genuine by COO of EchoTrade for those wondering). Naturally gifted and a good guy. Check out his calls thread for an idea of what is possible. There are a few other interesting posters who I do not know personally, but it is clear that they know very well their own specialism. I would mention hft for everything hft related - contributed a great thread here - and bone who has an interesting approach with futures spreads. Read all the posts by the above 5 names, and then contrast with any 5 posts picked at random written by either DBPhoenix or NoDoji. If you are in the least bit perceptive, you now know the type of people to listen to and the type to avoid. This simple exercise should tell you the majority of what you need to know about how to approach your trading business, should you decide to start one. Suggestion: build an edge around systematically exploiting the ignorance of others. Here is hoping you use ET for what it could and should be used for - learning from experts with an open mind. Not some sort of democracy where each point of view is equally valid. This isn't how markets work. If the popular approach worked, everyone would be profitable. Ultimately your own level of savvy and self honesty is going to determine more than anything else if and when you progress. This business isn't for everyone. Happy hunting!
I'll leave it to the audience to judge the credibility of those who are arguing an opposite point of view: In the Red Corner: "Rearden Metal" is verified to have made multiple millions of dollars day trading. His best day: Up $438,000. His worst day: Down $1.5 million. (traders who make real money take real risk and have real losses) Recent quote: "[when asked to explain his reasoning for a trade] I'll have to respectfully decline to go into all that. The way this profession works, edges rapidly disappear as more traders learn about them. I've seen it happen too many times in the past." In the Blue Corner: "NoDoji" claims to be making hundreds of ticks net profit per day in the crude oil market. Has never provided any verification that she is successful with her "simple price action" methods learned from books and websites. Her best days: over 100 ticks profit per contract. Her worst days: "only" 20-30 ticks profit per contract. Recent quote: Edges are all over the place. Books and web sites show you high probability price action setups and the high probability conditions under which to trade them. dbphoenix is giving away edges all over ET. People who choose to delude themselves are gonna get the outcome they deserve. Can't cheat the market. Progress starts with self honesty.
Thank you! I am checking out lots of posts by various members here and I appreciate almost everyones replies! Thank you once again
Thank you so much Blotto. Will read their posts! I'm more of the Omega kind of person and usually making my very own path in life but there's always helpful with some guidance when it comes down to something you haven't had a clue that you would ever be interested in/of. So thank you. Dennis
I had never heard that term before. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=omega male I especially like the part about the rams.
Good points Blotto.... I hate to say it but I am sure you are right... many people come into day trading seeing what they want to see.... and seek out those who tell them what they want to hear. I was once one of those people but smartened up. I admit the online gurus are very enticing with their claims and that is why people are drawn to them... but it takes a while of study before you start to see the cracks in the facade.... As the old saying goes..... if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. Let me add quote by NokomisJeff... there's no value to putting yourself out there. Plus, someone might figure out how I keep an edge, then my edge would disappear as has happened to guys i know who gave it away and lost their edge.
Amen! These are the guys whose footprints you learn to recognize and then hitch a ride with them. They trade much too large to offer you the sort of edge you need to trade a small account in a consistently profitable manner. And Blotto is spot on regarding the ability of these traders to make it on their own. Yes, Dennis, you are far more brilliant than the quants building systems for the institutional traders. Exploit their ignorance! If a popular approach worked, but 99% of traders failed to exploit it because they believe that real edges are not put out in plain sight for everyone to see, guess whoâs profiting from the 99% who know better than to trade an edge you can learn for free on the internet. Dennis, when youâre done studying the posts of someone who declines to discuss his edge because they disappear so quickly, let us know how that works for you. Beats a best day/worst day ratio of 1:3. XXXOOO Dennis, as a retail trader you can take advantage of basic intraday price action concepts to grow your account. Price action trading concepts allow you to automatically adapt to varying market conditions in real time and the edge doesn't disappear. The same setups (context>pattern>signal>trigger) that worked for me today and for the past 3 1/2 years appear to have been working as far back as I can obtain price charts of liquid instruments. Talking to big players who run hedge funds, own exchange seats, worked as market makers, or exploit/exploited the sort of edges that can evaporate is quite fascinating. I doubt, however, that it will help you build a consistently profitable trading business plan that can survive the test of bull, bear, trend and range.
Yeah, I can go with that. If one's edge disappears simply because he gives it away, he never had much of an edge in the first place. This morning, for example, I pinpointed the level of the 1000 reversal in the NQ two-and-a-half hours before the open. Am I giving this away? Yes. Does it matter? Not in the least. The more people who could join me in propelling price 30pts skyward, the better. While there may be "secret" edges and "proprietary" trading systems whose exposure would destroy the auction market as we know it, they needn't concern you. Just do the work.
Edge and Skill are two different horses all together.. an edge* is something you can exploit ,,, sort of a cash loop hole .. (food for Holy grail hunters) a skill can be learned and works in all inviroments.. if u can read the markets, wheter off a chart or DOM / T&S u got a skill not an edge and reading waht ultimately drives price ; a shift of balance/inbalance in supply and demand is all a retail trader needs to aquire... knowing what causes that shift is beyond the charts(market participants psychology) but all in all.. can be seen or anticipated just observing a chart/Dom etc.. *if u are a friggin big player u have an edge knowing what drives price and knowing how to play the game thereof .. that is an edge ,but requires capital and skill
Will definitely have that in mind! Will do! I hate to break it to you but as for now, I haven't even had a chance to read about edges but I bet it will come down to me very soon. Still reading books so try get as much information as possible before I would even consider to open an account (even if it just something to use when analyzing the market movements). Beats a best day/worst day ratio of 1:3. XXXOOO Thanks!