New Rogue Trader hits the Copper Market, gets Squeezed

Discussion in 'Commodity Futures' started by fxpeculator, Nov 14, 2005.

  1. Choad

    Choad

    Kinda reminds me of the Joe Pesci character in "Casino".

    He was playing blackjack and when he won he'd take the money, but when he lost he just said he wasn't paying. But you remember what happened to him...

    White collar criminals in China don't do 13 months in a Club Fed country club prison. They get the axe...literally!
     
    #31     Nov 16, 2005
  2. nkhoi

    nkhoi Moderator

    if GM blow up... as other threat speculate then the world should get plenty of metal surplus.
     
    #32     Nov 16, 2005
  3. A large LME clearer made a call to the SRB looking for Liu Qibing, but was told that "nobody with that name is employed with the SRB, nor has anyone with that name ever worked at the SRB."

    The incredulous LME clearer asked how that was possible, considering he was their chief trader. Same response.

    A week later they place another call to the SRB and are told that Liu DOES INDEED work for the SRB, but is on an "extended vacation."

    Liu is taking a dirt nap.
     
    #33     Nov 16, 2005
  4. AFX News Limited
    'Missing' China copper trader in police custody in Beijing - report
    11.21.2005, 03:24 AM


    BEIJING (AFX) - The State Reserve Bureau copper trader who built up large short positions on the London Metal Exchange and then disappeared is now in police custody, the Economic Observer said.

    The newspaper, without citing sources, said that Liu Qibing is being held by police in Beijing.

    The report said Liu has been in custody since last month on suspected 'unauthorized trading'.

    The report gave no further details.

    According to media reports, Liu took short positions equal to 100,000-200,000 tons of copper in July and August on the London Metal Exchange, and went missing in October.

    The losses could amount to 100 mln usd, according to some estimates. They have sparked speculation the SRB did not have sufficient reserves to meet deliveries due in December, pushing copper prices up even further.

    The SRB said last week Liu was acting on his own and denied that it had entrusted him to take the positions.

    Contacted by XFN-Asia, the SRB said it was unaware of Liu's whereabouts.

    vm/wk
    http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2005/11/21/afx2347331.html
     
    #34     Nov 21, 2005
  5. Chood

    Chood

    Latest press (see bolded paragraphs):
    _______________________________________________

    China’s State Reserves Bureau was again the centre of attention in the copper market on Monday, with traders saying that the Chinese government-owned authority might have extended its copper trading position until the end of 2007. They added that there was talk the SRB had started delivering copper into London Metal Exchange registered warehouses.

    The bureau is reported to be obliged to deliver 100,000-200,000 tonnes by December 21 and might have been responsible for a delivery of up to 3,000 tonnes into warehouses in the South Korean port city of Busan. This delivery resulted in a net increase of 2,525 tonnes into copper metal stockpiles on the LME on Monday.

    “There is talk that this delivery into Busan is part of a 20,000 tonne copper consignment to be delivered by the SRB over the next few weeks,” said Robin Bahr, base metals analyst at UBS.

    Last week, the SRB sold 20,000 tonnes of copper in an auction and plans another 20,000 tonne auction this week. It has delivered about 50,000 tonnes of copper into warehouses with the Shanghai Futures Exchange in recent months.

    Mr Bahr said the price gap between the cash copper price and prices for copper for delivery in December 2006 had widened from a $300 a tonne discount to more than $600 below the prevailing cash price over the past week.

    Traders said a deeper discount suggested that prices had been pushed lower because more traders were selling copper for December 2006, buying in the short term so that their position was fully hedged.

    They said that the same was repeated for December 2007 when the price discount to the prevailing cash prices doubled to $1,000 a tonne.

    “When you look at price movements like that, it would indicate that someone is buying copper in the near term and selling it in the future, and the rumour is that SRB is behind this trade,” said Mr Bahr.


    The benchmark three-month copper price hit an intraday high of $4,240 a tonne, just $2 below its record peak reached on Friday, before easing to $4,209 in late London trade. Copper cash prices were last trading at $4,381, down $24 from the high touched on Friday.

    Barclays Capital said that Chinese copper imports fell sharply in October, with net imports probably not more than 65,000 tonnes. “Chinese market participants are hoping for a pick-up in SRB stock releases instead of importing copper from the expensive international market,” Barclays said.
     
    #35     Nov 21, 2005
  6. Will the Chinese government pay in full (as they are obligated to do), or will they DK?
     
    #36     Nov 21, 2005
  7. tomcole

    tomcole

    You should google what happened to China Petroleum for some idea of what can happen.
     
    #37     Nov 22, 2005
  8. So what happens if they default? Just say they aren't paying - tough darts?

    Not like anyone else wont fill the gap and do business with them, is it?
     
    #38     Nov 22, 2005
  9. Typically Chinese way of doing things: Dishonesty in a stupid way.

    What about the Chinese guy who put billions of dollars into Bear Stearns months before it collapsed? He thought BSC was a cheap buy! Idiot!

    What about the Chinese guy who put 3 billion dollars into Blackstone when it IPOed. Lost half of the money within half of year. Another idiot!

    Did the Chinese government arrest those two idiots and put them in jail?

    The biggest idiots of all are those chinese who bought US currency in the last 2 years, while the Fed lowered the interest rate and devalued its currency consistently. Those idiots have lost HUNDREDS of billions of dollars. The funny thing is the whole Chinese government is ignorant and doesn't know their holding of US currency is losing value every day, while we ordinary Canadian citizens know we can buy 1 US dollar with 1 Canadian dollar (two years ago, we paid 1.5 Canadian dollars for 1 US dollar).
     
    #39     Aug 2, 2008
  10. What about the Chinese guy who put billions of dollars into Bear Stearns months before it collapsed? He thought BSC was a cheap buy! Idiot!

    What about the Chinese guy who put 3 billion dollars into Blackstone when it IPOed. Lost half of the money within half of year. Another idiot!

    Did the Chinese government arrest those two idiots and put them in jail
    ----------------------
    The chinese are brilliant compared to Orange county CA. yikes, Enron LTCM Refco,.:D
     
    #40     Aug 2, 2008