New NAFTA without Canada?

Discussion in 'Economics' started by Jones75, Aug 28, 2018.

  1. bone

    bone

    Trump is doing exactly what he told HIS (emphasis) voters he would do pretty much. He’s been stymied with The Wall but I’m sure he’s not done pushing for that.
     
    #31     Aug 31, 2018
  2. I am part of Trump's base. I am willing to tolerate his personal issues in exchange for his world class skills, his stated pro-US agenda, and his "get things done" attitude.

    Although I respect the fact Trump is under tremendous pressure and scrutiny by the media and partisan investigators, it goes with the territory of being a US President. Unless one happens to be a media darling, of course.

    The key for myself and surely some other Trump supporters is he does not put his personal agenda ahead of the United States. Part of the United States interests include good relations with its neighbors and trading partners. If Trump feels he's been insulted by another party, too bad. He needs to deal with it in a mature way.

    Trump has missed opportunities where a few kind words and gestures could have opened doors to better relationships than insults and threats. Although I believe Trump has used unconventional techniques to get people to the negotiating table or to make concessions, it is still necessary to recognize the times when diplomacy can be more effective than the sword.

    Trump needs to be more than a one trick pony in this diverse, multicultural, and complex world.

    It is only through cooperation within a country and between countries that real progress can be made on domestic and global issues. One does not gain willing cooperation from another party by beating them up all the time. However, one can be assertive and stand their ground when their cause is reasonable, such as a balanced trade agreement. Trump then may be able to get the other side to agree to a fair deal without resentment.

    The path Trump seems to be on now is that of creating lasting resentment to himself and the United States. I'm not talking about the whining that goes along with most attempts to change the status quo, such as recent European and Chinese negotiating tactics. I'm talking about true resentment that happens when you try to take advantage of someone. Then you try to rub their nose in it and expect cooperation?

    Many in the US have the perception that we've have been screwed over by unfair trade deals. Some may want for our new trade deals to make up for it. This is not a practical goal because many of our trading partners are not strong enough economically to handle an unbalanced agreement.

    Willing leadership cooperation is key as is foreign public perception of the United States in order to have an effective and satisfying trade agreement.

    Trump needs to put himself in other people's shoes to help him visualize how they might react, like he probably would, when facing similar situations.

    If Trump's clumsy handling of world affairs causes a global anti-American sentiment, he has failed to serve the people of the United States interests. Unfortunately, global economic chaos and maybe worse, would likely ensue under those conditions.

    Hopefully, over this weekend, Trump and other global leaders will recognize the need to treat each other respectfully and work towards a fair trade agreement.
     
    #32     Aug 31, 2018
  3. SunTrader

    SunTrader

    #33     Sep 3, 2018
  4. neke

    neke

    Trump putting himself in other people's shoes? Wishful thinking. He lacks that ability.
     
    #34     Sep 3, 2018
  5. Arnie

    Arnie

    Not So Fast: NAFTA Isn't Dead Yet, Thanks to Concessions From Canada

    By Brendan Menapace
    FACEBOOKFACEBOOKTWITTERTWITTERLINKEDINLINKEDINEMAILEMAIL0 COMMENTSCOMMENTS




    [​IMG]
    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he's optimistic that NAFTA agreements could come as quickly as this week. | Credit: Getty Images by Drew Angerer

    Reports that NAFTA is finished could be premature, or at least exaggerated. After President Trump announced on Monday that the U.S. had reached a new trade deal with Mexico, potentially leaving Canada on its own, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said that NAFTA agreements could come as soon as Friday.

    "We recognize that there is a possibility of getting there by Friday," Trudeau said, according to CNN. "But it is only a possibility, because it will hinge on whether or not there is ultimately a good deal for Canada. No NAFTA deal is better than a bad NAFTA deal."

    Things are looking good for Canada in that regard, actually. Nasdaqreported today that the Canadian Dollar surged after Canada is reportedly readying concessions to reach an agreement over NAFTA.

    The focal point of those concessions are dairy farms, as Canada is considering allowing U.S. farmers to access Canada's dairy market.

    Nasdaq's Justin McQueen wrote:

    Canada's protected dairy industry has been one of the major stumbling blocks in NAFTA renegotiations, as such, this concession from Canada increases the possibility that the U.S. and Canada could reach an agreement before the October 1st deadline. That said, sentiment around NAFTA has been relatively upbeat with the Canadian Trade Minister stating that talks had been constructive. The outlook for the Canadian Dollar is very much dependent

    The deadline for President Trump to submit a renegotiated NAFTA deal to congress is in 18 days. If Canada and the U.S. don't make nice before then, the deal the president announced with Mexico could be the route they take, with Canada given the option to join later on. That wouldn't be ideal for Canada, though.

    [​IMG]
    Donald J. Trump

    ✔@realDonaldTrump



    There is no political necessity to keep Canada in the new NAFTA deal. If we don’t make a fair deal for the U.S. after decades of abuse, Canada will be out. Congress should not interfere w/ these negotiations or I will simply terminate NAFTA entirely & we will be far better off...

    11:03 AM - Sep 1, 2018
    Twitter Ads info and privacy




    The NAFTA talks have been ongoing since shortly after Trump took office. Throughout his tenure in the Oval Office, he's been vocal about the deal's perceived flaws:

    [​IMG]
    Donald J. Trump

    ✔@realDonaldTrump



    ....Remember, NAFTA was one of the WORST Trade Deals ever made. The U.S. lost thousands of businesses and millions of jobs. We were far better off before NAFTA - should never have been signed. Even the Vat Tax was not accounted for. We make new deal or go back to pre-NAFTA!

    11:12 AM - Sep 1, 2018
    Twitter Ads info and privacy




    The U.S. has taken an "all or nothing" standpoint throughout the talks, despite Mexican and Canadian officials being optimistic about them. It ties in with the populist platform of the Trump administration.

    Canada, which hasn't solidified its buy-in to the new system like Mexico reportedly has, has to play by Trump's rules for a seat at the table. The dairy concession is a good indicator that it's willing to play ball a little, but it's standing strong on its commitment to a dispute resolution system it fought for 30 years ago—something Trump wants to end.

    The prediction? Trudeau might be right about Friday, or at least one day soon.

    "So what's the path to a deal? In all likelihood, Canada giving in a bit on dairy, and the U.S. backing of demands to completely nix the Chapter 19 binding arbitration regime Canada holds so dear—if Trump and Trudeau can get over past mudslinging," wrote Politico's Lauren Gardner.

    Mexico was in a unique situation, electing a new president in the midst of the negotiations. Trump and Trudeau have more of a past, which became competitive quickly. Canada likely won't join as easily as Mexico did, but their cooperation gives onlookers a reason to share in the optimism Canada's trade officials felt (or faked) during the talks.
     
    #35     Sep 12, 2018
  6. Jones75

    Jones75

    #36     Sep 12, 2018
  7. Sometimes trade agreements are reached, sometimes they are not. I would not want to be the last country left trying to negotiate a trade deal with Trump.

    That said, I believe it is sound policy to have the strongest possible relations with countries at one's borders. There are lower transportation costs and they are more likely to share many regional interests.
     
    #37     Sep 12, 2018
  8. bone

    bone

    My sense is that Trump is finding that Tariffs are NOT the unilateral bludgeon he had hoped for; likewise Trudeau is finding that his theatrical platitudes to the Canadian and US liberal base count for nothing in trade negotiations. It is the Executive Branch who negotiates trade Agreements. Even if the House goes Blue in November it won’t help Canada until 2020 maybe...
     
    #38     Sep 12, 2018
  9. Nine_Ender

    Nine_Ender

    Canadian trade has nothing to do with a "liberal base". We are simply waiting out the US and their crazy leader. The US needs the trade as badly as we do. If need be, we can walk, and revert back to pre-NAFTA days when significant trade existed between Canada and the US without an agreement. The longer this goes the more the US has to consider giving in to common sense and stifle Trump and his nutty ideas.

    Meanwhile, Microsoft opened up a new HQ in downtown Toronto and successful firms like Google and Amazon are increasing their presence in Toronto. This year Toronto is the fastest growing IT hub in North America. Our banks are expanding internationally and their main HQs are here. None of these firms seem overly concerned about what Trump and gang can do to Canada. Canada continues to pump out quality educated professionals that are well liked by firms all over the globe. I'd rather be in the new economies then the more traditional industries that Trump is obsessed with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
    #39     Sep 13, 2018
    SunTrader likes this.
  10. Nine_Ender

    Nine_Ender

    Trade exists because it helps both parties, even if it's a huge trade deficit. Ironically, the US and Canada don't even have that, there is no meaningful trade deficit on either side. Only an idiot would attack their best trading partner and whine about being ripped off for decades. Trump is however an idiot, and all parties have to recognize that reality and deal with it best they can.
     
    #40     Sep 13, 2018