I started this thread yesterday but a moderator has apparently gotten rid of it on this board and I really don't know why. At least it seems to be gone and I could not find it via search. I just would like to know if anyone on this board has had any experience with the service in question. Here is a link to their webpage for others to comment if they wish to do so: http://www.netpicksllc.com/s&p.html TIA, wally_
You should make it a habit of reviewing any website Disclaimer Statement. Here's what I pulled from NetPicks disclaimer statement: "...NetPicks will not trade every position mentioned so results and performance can be considered hypothetical based on simulating results..." Wally...when I see a disclaimer statement as such like NetPick has and that same website actually takes the time and energy to posts past trades... Why don't they also designate which ones they themselves traded with real money, paper traded or didn't even bother with? Look at it like this...would you rather deal with a website that actually trades with real money or paper trades via hypothetical or simulating trading? Me personally, if a website cannot post real money results...especially if their using some sort'uv mechanical or systemized trading system... that's a website that every trader should avoid unless that trader is also paper trading NihabaAshi
misunderstood that disclaimer: "...NetPicks will not trade every position mentioned so results and performance can be considered hypothetical based on simulating results..." The disclaimer says only and that's how I understand it, that they do not take all the trades, perhaps none at all, and so the results can only be considered hypothetical because of slippage and liquidity. In other words they cannot guarantee that you could have gotten a fill at all or that your profit target of say 3.5 pts would have been reached or not. Because of slippage and liquidity this might have not been possible. I am actually not suprised they do not take all these trades, after all I will not take all of them either. I am mostly interested in ES signals and they offer also signals for NQ and signals for stocks. It is probably because of this variety of signals that they do not trade all of them. They may even not trade any of them, that would be fine too. Also, have you found many services that present their results as actual as opposed to hypothetical. Could you point me to such a service? Their disclaimer is fine with me. They provide signals and are not in the business of trading them. Many other services do just that too or correct me if I am wrong, as I would love to find a service that can back up their signals with actual trading records that would include slippage as well, of course. Anyway, I am not trying to defend them, I simply don't see anything really inappropriate in their disclaimer. It is very similar to many other I have found. I was just hoping to hear from someone who has traded with them to tell me how the results they post relate to the trading reality. That's what I was mainly interested in. Thanks for your reply. If you know a better service, more honest in your opinion, I would appreciate some information on it.
that, but I find it odd that many other services of this kind that also present their results as hypothetical have been mentioned here, but not this one. I will let you know in some time, I guess in a few months how I am doing.
Good. Most people are usually suspicious of such services (rightly so). There are good traders out there some giving their trades live, some for free some not Many are interested to read about this here, just llike anywhere else. But don't be surprised to be met by much skepticism, with so called 'true signals' as well as hypothetical ones.
Wally, It's obvious you and I look for different types of results. Therefore, their Disclaimer Statement is not fine with me. Further...as you said..."They provide signals and are not in the business of trading them." The market is tough enough already...for someone or some business to gain my confidence and for me to have confidence in their trade signals... I need to know that they actually trade their system signals and able to make real money from such trades (this would be my personal requirement). Also it is true what you said...their disclaimer is similar to so many others. I truly don't think it's difficult for a website to say what they actually traded with real money...paper traded...hypothetical signals or ignored for whatever reason (such as being on vacation) and post such at the top of their results...not in small print Thus, the ones that actually do trade their signals and post their results...stand out from the rest. Its one of the main reason why if you look at the Journal Forum here at ET...the paper traders get more philosophical replies and the real money traders or traders posting entries and exits soon after they occur (I'm not talking about the end-of-day stuff)...get more serious replies about specific trades. Therefore...I do know several individuals or services that post their signals and also trade them and have verifiable trading records (successful results)...nothing hypothetical ...outside the individuals I've met here at ET. Such individuals or services are not dependent upon clients as customers because their income is via their own trading. (Hmmm....imagine that). Currently, I have a private list of such individuals or services under the heading of Trader Mentors. Also...currently I'm keeping a private list of those (students) interested in such individuals or services. This list is mainly for discretionary traders... traders wanting to learn how to fish instead of being given a fish to eat Thus, I'm not sure if it will be of interest to you. However...I will slowly start keeping a list for mechanical system traders with verifiable trading success via those that actually trades their system with real money. This also will be a private list and I will not share it publicly in the open forum. It's just a list of students wanting to hook up with mentors or system traders and both sides are verifide. More information via an earlier thread I started here at EliteTrader... http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8750 As tntneo hinted...it really doesn't matter if someone or a service post hypothetical trades or real trades... if the results are successful...there will always be skepticism because their are too many traders losing consistent money. Such traders find it hard to believe there are others out their actually making a living at trading and not earning most of their living via selling something. NihabaAshi
In reading this thread my comment is this -- it makes no sense to evaluate a trade service based on the disclaimer. These websites have to post these type of things -- if you were to "trust" one who didn't it simply means they are not following the usual legalities. Especially in the futures markets everything has to be presented as hypothetical even if it's transmitted to their customers or even traded by the service. That's just the way it is. So I for one would not base the validity or lack thereof by trying to tear apart and analyze a disclaimer word for word. Certainly the lack of one doesn't mean you'll make money, nor does a really long one mean you won't make money. Focus instead on the service, the set-ups, etc... make sure you get either a free trial or a low cost trial to evaluate it in real-time. I only get fearful when the company wants thousands upfront -- someone who charges me a few bucks to take a look is low risk -- most things you look at won't work for you perhaps but risking a few commissions to take a peak is worthwhile. I would agree that the majority out there probably are not going to bring you the holy grail but as long as you have a fair opportunity to view signals in real-time without a major investment there isn't much risk. No matter how thorough the disclaimer might be.
Hi, You said "everything has to be presented as hypothetical..." Why and by whom saids this is the rule all disclaimers must follow? I've seen a a lot of successful Futures websites via hypothetical trades and a few successful Futures websites via real money trades with verifiable records. If both had a free trial or fee-based service...which one would you be interested in? Therefore...because I seen both...I do take disclaimer statements or small print statements next to trade results very seriously. Also...I completely agree...if it has a free trial...go for it. However...I would recommend a trader use a realtime simulator to test the free-trial prior to any real money trades. Even better...test via a realtime simulator and come back to ET and post the results...that would shed more light on one trader's experience with a particular service. In fact...it would carry more weight than my message about the importance of disclaimers and your take that disclaimers really don't matter because that's the way it is. However...I'm still an advocate of reading disclaimer statements along with privacy statements. I've seen some very odd stuff out there among websites from statements like: "XXXX has the right to share, rent and exchange your email address with other interested third parties" "XXXX accuracy, reliability of such information is believed to be unreliable." "XXXX on occassion will include inaccuracies and/or typographical errors" Here's my all time favorite by a website no longer around (not the exact words but close): "We at XXXX have never traded a single contract. All system results are hpothetical with a 98% win rate. Such results are generated by an unknown reliable source" Now...please try to convince me or anyone else that we shouldn't take disclaimer statements too seriously. Maybe all those websites made mistakes in their disclaimers Regardless...such still should not be ignore nor underestimated. Also...as I've said before...the good ones (a minority) aren't doing what everybody else is doing. P.S. Evenmore scary...anybody can throw a website online for less than $100.00...such sites usually have sucky disclaimer statements. NihabaAshi