Neiderhoffer

Discussion in 'Trading' started by timvodas, Sep 29, 2007.

  1. EPrado

    EPrado


    At the end of the day Surf, he made a very very large trade that blew up in his face. No dancing around that fact. If he wasn't so margined perhaps he could have survived July/Aug. Hell...maybe he could have added near the bottom and turned it into a breakeven/winning trade. But the fact is....his strategy was flawed and he paid for it.

    Yes...the CME changed margin requirements....but a guy of his stature/experience should have been ready for something like that considering the move in the vix. He easily could have cut back his position when shit got crazy..but he chose not to...and got hurt. Nobody to blame but himself.
     
    #421     Oct 10, 2007
  2. Jeez why is it so hard for some people to admit he blew up or lost money. Happens all the time in the market, especially here at ET. The man is human lol. Whether it was change in margin or vol jumps, he blew up and out and it was not for some unfathomable event. Although one cannot predict a credit crisis, a vol spike on unusual events/news happens often enough to make an option seller aware.
     
    #422     Oct 10, 2007
  3. If he didn't overleverage, and cut loss based on margin requirement, would he survive? I am just trying to learn risk management from his loss.
     
    #423     Oct 10, 2007
  4. Yes, and if Titanic hadn't struck an iceberg, she probably wouldn't have sunk.
     
    #424     Oct 10, 2007
  5. If he wanted to make outsized returns on the upside, which seems to have been the very purpose of the fund in the first place, he could have ALSO bot a touch on the upside, an April 1800, perhaps. Or, in plain vanilla terms, sell atm calls and buy more otm calls with the proceeds, at a 1X2 ratio, perhaps.

    Then again, if that is what Octane wanted, a fund that acted like a otm call, why didn't they do it themselves?
     
    #425     Oct 10, 2007
  6. A touch is long gamma across all points on the distribution, so a deep otm bull vertical is a close analog. Skew forces deep otm deltas up [long dspot]. Why outsource at all? FoF is pointless.
     
    #426     Oct 10, 2007
  7. Maverick1

    Maverick1

    You can just imagine the conversation between the swiss and Matador:

    "Euhh, Victor, how eez my monay doooin?? Ze dollaire is selling off Victore, zis iz no goood. Come on, you are ze matador right, make us some monay, vee vill invest more wiz you, vee promisse.... Euhh Victorre, u zere?...(line goes dead)"
     
    #427     Oct 10, 2007
  8. nitro

    nitro

    HAHAHAHAHAHAH

    nitro :D
     
    #428     Oct 10, 2007
  9. nitro

    nitro

    "Euhh Victorre, u zere?..." (long silence) Euhh, victoore, vee hahve vaays of making you taahlk."

    :D nitro :D
     
    #429     Oct 10, 2007
  10. jebara

    jebara Guest

    #430     Oct 10, 2007