Need Advice

Discussion in 'Trading' started by trader99, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. trader99



    Just to update. I finally landed a job that paid the same level as my last management level position at a tech company! This is no mean feat after months of looking while consulting on the side.

    Ironically around that same time, I had like 3 job offers and it was so hard to decide.

    So, I'm doing the smart thing and daytrading in the morning and going to work. And doing some longer term swing trading. No full time trading for me.

    I still haven't invested much time on building a longer term trading system so I can focus on my work and let the system swing trade for me. Perhaps in the future...


    #41     Apr 22, 2017
  2. ironchef


    Congratulations. I am happy you are getting back to the profession you were trained and are good at. Continue to build your investment/trading portfolio until you can afford to quit your day job and not have to depend on trading for living expenses. That way, there will be no pressure and you will trade with much better results.

    I went full time only after I was able to quit my day job and never look back.

    Best of luck to you sir.
    #42     Apr 22, 2017
    trader99 and userque like this.
  3. trader99


    Thank you for your compliments and wise advices. I learned the hard way about daytrading fulltime from 2001-2003. Those were darkest years of my life when I quit a good paying corporate job to do daytrading FT without a freaking clue. haha. Young and foolish.

    I'm glad I was able to re-enter the workforce, worked my way back up, went to a decent graduate school, then proceed to advance in my career beyond the level I was back in 2001. Whew.

    Given the opportunity again in 2016 with my most recent layoff, I was tempted but didn't take it though financially I'm in a much much better position than when I was in 2001-2003. So, I'm glad I'm back on the saddle with a great corporate job at an excellent tech company making great money and benefits. I'll just daytrade and swing trade on the side.

    But like you said, I still need to "continue to build" up my investment/trading portfolio to a level where success is realistic. And it's not only the amount of capital available, which itself is an edge, but also my skills and understanding of market dynamics. My trading skills have improved a lot, but it's still a ways to go til I feel that I'm so good that going to work is costing me more than trading.

    I'm not there yet but I feel like in 3-5 years I'll be there. Think long-term. No daytrading riches fantasies. But a realistic look at what is achievable. I'll get there. I'll report back periodically of my progress.

    The funny thing is the long and steady way is the FASTEST way to get there. If one jump in thinking you can master this game in a couple of years then you will die broke. Whereas if you have other sources of income, benefits, and diversifying your source of income and happiness then you will achieve your trading riches even faster than keep failing due to undercapitalization and stress.

    It's exciting and fun but one has to hedge your risks.
    #43     Apr 23, 2017
    Handle123, ironchef and userque like this.
  4. dealmaker


    Always go with your gut. It takes 18 months to internalize a new behavior IE going from trading as supplemental income to trading for a living.
    #44     Apr 23, 2017
  5. Handle123


    Congrats on get going on a good path, keep learning about different markets and chart patterns, never stop back testing, strive for more even when the going is a stand still. It is amazing we get into our own timeframes of learning new ideas comes in blocks of knowledge like an explosion, once every seven years, start brand new systems, be surprised at oneself at what you can learn new by forcing yourself to do different.
    #45     Apr 23, 2017
    bone likes this.
  6. trader99


    Hi Guys,

    I know you guys don't know who I am nor I know who you are. But I feel like updating to you.

    Yesterday, I was laid off at the nice corporate job I was talking about. I have 1.5 month severance and lots of savings. So, no worries financially at least for a while.

    Now, I'm back to the same position that my wife was telling me. I went against her advice and dive back to a normal corporate job, which she told me would not be a good fit for me. All because of the "perceived stability". But in fact, nothing is secured about a corporate job with a lot of changes and backstabbing going on.

    You think I should take the plunge and go for it(full-time consulting) as she advised? I think she probably know me better than I know myself. This will give me a lot of flexibility in terms of schedule for trading, taking care of my family, and do other side projects.

    Or should I seek false security(benefits, steady paycheck until it runs out, perks) and try again at another corporate job that might or might not last for a while...
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    #46     Oct 7, 2017
  7. Truth_


    So the chronology of events from this thread is:
    Dec 2016 fired
    April 2017 hired
    October 2017 fired

    Two jobs in less than one year.

    I was last employed sometime in the 1980’s. Since then I have run my own businesses, invested long term, and traded short term. There have been lean times and there have been plentiful times, but there has never been “a rug pulled out from under my feet” time.

    Sounds like you need very basic financial planning as a baby step. You mention a wife, but no mention of children. Although you did use the phrase “taking care of my family”, but that could include an elderly parent, a sibling with a medical condition, or just some person in difficulty that you commit to assisting (good on you).

    So if you drop dead right now, how does your family survive? In general I hate insurance, but I do see value in five year term life insurance for a “bread-winner” with a family. (I’m so old, no one will be inconvenienced. The not-seen relatives will be cheering and licking their chops when I kick-off. Little do they know it is all going to the Buddhist Society of Western Australia.)

    What’s up with your retirement planning?

    Suppose you are only crippled from a stroke and do not die, so there is no life insurance or car insurance (had it been a collision), how does your family survive?

    What about health insurance? I am told that for Americans that can be a literal killer.

    Is your wife independently wealthy from her own employment, assets, family? That certainly changes your risk profile.

    (see I did it again; I made the post about you, when I mean it as general information since I know nothing about you, please replace the above words “you” and “your” with the phrases “a person” and “a person’s”.)

    (also you may have a very comprehensive financial plan already in place, I do not know one way or the other, please do not take offense from my lack of information, I genuinely intend the best for you and your family)

    (this non-offensive writing take a lot of work, I must be a truly offensive person, chatting in a pub with a mate over a pint is so much easier, especially if they are a Geordie)

    Without “a person” getting “their” foundational financial affairs in order, “their” psychology during trading will be effected. When I trade I have no emotional response to a win or a loss, its just another trade out of thousands. If I knew that the trade affected the food my family would eat that week, then I would have an emotional response that would limit my profits. At the end of the day I autopsy my trades, the goal being to see if the results of my strategy are still within expected values, and where I created deviations from the strategy to understand why so they are not repeated. Sometimes I let a small amount of emotion creep in at that time. Like yesterday, when I made profit but left lots on the table due to deviating from The Plan.

    As far as an opinion on whether you should take another job, or go into the consulting field, perhaps there are people closer to you, with more detailed information about your situation, than strangers on an internet forum.

    For example, is there a consulting job that you could start immediately, or do you have to go out and find a contract? How will you find the 17th contract? Is the work so plentiful and the pool of talent so small that work falls into your lap with a queue of offers? Frequently technology people are poor at marketing and selling since they are not people orientated (even among the FANG’s the founders were not known for their people skills and they hired the talent to fill in where they were weak). I doubt anyone here knows this level of personal information about you.

    My suggestion is to find a trusted friend or relative, that you respect, and have private conversation, where all the details get disclosed (to them alone) about your choices and situation. Be clear upfront, that you want their truthful opinion and not a varnished version designed to make you feel better in light of just being fired. If you do not have such a trusted friend then that is also a piece of information to consider. Then review that conversation (or the inability to have it) with your wife.

    You may also want to consider and define what would make you happy. Most people simply head for the largest $ £ ¥ € and live a miserable existence as a consequence. You and your wife could turn this small window of time into a great opportunity to plan the rest of your life in a comprehensive manner that leads to joy rather than money. Certainly, in most societies, money is a component, but not as much as most people think. The Apprentice UK started last week, to watch a group of 18 young boot-lickers trying to give Lord Sugar a hand job is both funny, and a reminder; to focus on the important to the individual and not the artificial desire of the masses.

    I made a choice to live in a remote area on a lake, lots of land, lots of peace, rarely see people. It’s a 45 minutes drive to get a quart of milk, in the winter the road can become impassable, so its not for everyone. I also happen to be addicted to trading for 50+ years so I still do it for the joy of trading. More money than I need accumulates in my account therefore I meet some definition of rich (expenses<income). By the standards bandied about on trading forums, I am but a pauper.

    Ultimately you have to make a decision for yourself. Take on board information, decide and then get on with it.

    Final comment: Earlier in this thread it was suggested that you increase the size of your trades as a way to make more money. Please do a risk of ruin calculation before implementing such a strategy. I have no idea as to the percentage of your account that you risk per trade, but there does come a tipping point where the size of the trade compared to the frequency of loss, or losing percentage, creates a certainty of losing the entire account. If you have already done this and are well aware of RoR, I did not mean to offend, only provide a suggestion since I do not know your level of expertise.

    I have tried to make this post offensive free, but through inadvertence may not have succeeded. If any reader is offended then ….. ( ok, best I delete that).
    #47     Oct 7, 2017
    comagnum, trader99 and ThunderThor like this.
  8. dealmaker


    You have solicited enough advice, "it's time to shit or get off the pot"!
    #48     Oct 7, 2017
    ThunderThor likes this.
  9. comagnum


    My ideal setup would be to be for my daytrading to be $500-$1k+ a day.

    I recall and old T.V. commercial promoting their system for day trading making $1,000 a day trading the morning open. It showed a young couple beaming with euphoria. The guy was making his morning trade with a laptop while his frisky babe was waiting to shag.
    #49     Oct 7, 2017
  10. themickey


    #50     Oct 7, 2017