Need Advice

Discussion in 'Trading' started by trader99, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. JackRab


    So that's you culprit... you hang on to losers. Nothing to do with swing trading. It's 'hope trading'... you hope it recovers. Don't... just cut the losses and be strict with it... (just don't set too tight stops).
    #31     Dec 7, 2016
    trader99 likes this.
  2. Perhaps you are right. But in the other purely daytrading account where I rarely swing trade, I'm up nicely.

    But you are right. Holding losers too long on ANY TIMEFRAME is bad!! I definitely know how to make money($17K in one day is my best so far), but it's those occasional big losses that get me!

    Do you set stops as soon as you enter? I think that single habit would make me a phenomenal track record. 70-80% win ratio. Nice Sharpe that gets ruined by occasional big losses. :(
    #32     Dec 7, 2016
  3. You guys all know this feeling. On days when I'm doing well, it's the best job in the world. When days when I'm not doing well, I feel like I'm wasting my time and should get back to corporate world where I'm guaranteed good pay, benefits, etc. with zero risk.

    Well I got interviews coming up and hopefully soon will be back to Corporate Land. But I'll continue to daytrade & swing trade on the side...
    #33     Dec 7, 2016
    JackRab likes this.
  4. Hi ET,

    I'm not sure if this is the right forum to ask, but I know there are smart, well-balanced, and informed ET members on here that I trust and valued their opinions.

    I was at decent seniority at the tech company before I was laid off. I've started interviewing again and I get really positive feedbacks given 1) my excellent educational credentials 2) professional skills & experiences. So, I'm not too concerned about getting "a job." But I want to get the right level job, which is harder. I don't want to have to go down too many levels from where I am which makes the trek back up harder and longer.

    1) Should I take a job 2-3 levels below where I was but at a big name stable company? My gut tells me NO. I could care less about prestige of the company. Some of my family & friends are telling me a big name company looks good on your resume. Yes and no. While it might be 2-3 levels below where I am, it's still very good pay and the stability of a big company can make me relax a bit and focus on other things(e.g. side trading, etc.). But "good" pay is relative. On a career progression standpoint, it will be a big step backward in pay and title but an upgrade in terms of quality of company since my last company was not a big name company though the pay was high. But on the grand scheme of things my lifestyle wouldn't even take a hit or anything given tech job pays relatively well in general. Personally, I'm uncomfortable with this choice.

    2a) Say NO to option 1. Wait it out for a better job with the right title and pay.
    2b) Variation would be wait it out and find a job that's only 1 level below where I am in terms of pay.
    2c) Wait it out for a job that's the same or close to the same where I was.
    2d) Wait it out for for a job, that's even higher than where I was.

    3) I'm currently doing side consulting now with the hourly rate MUCH HIGHER than my old job. But the number of hours are much lower and unpredictable. Should I focus more on this given its potentially higher overall pay if I can get more hours and more clients? But that's akin to running a business in addition to doing my technical work. So, there's a layer of complexity of biz dev, client acquisition, marketing, etc. My wife likes this option. She thinks it's time for me to strike out on my own. I tell her to be realistic since the ramp up time can potentially take a long time. The freedom of running your own practice is nice. But it could be years before I can get to the same level of pay as a corporate job though on an hourly basis I might be much higher. Or it could take it off and be successful sooner than I think... Or it could fail like most new businesses.

    Getting the exact type of job I want especially at big companies can take many months. So, there's short-term opportunity cost(lost salary, benefits in those intervening months). But if it takes 3months to find the perfect job then it's worth the risk? Else I will be knocked down 2-3 levels below which could take YEARS to come back up right? The catch is assuming it will only take 2-3months to get the right job...

    What do you guys think is the best route? Weighing the opportunity costs both short-term as well as long-term?

    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
    #34     Dec 11, 2016
  5. Handle123


    We are all different, but I have always preferred to start new business ventures and go balls to the wall on getting them profitable so long as it was outside time I day traded. If you are good, clients will come. BUT you sound more like a corporate man who may like the security of working for others, you can keep doing what you doing till you find a position that suits you, and you are right, can take you years to decade from taking lower position. AND as you age, your marketable skills diminish and at some point of 3-4 years later you be taking lower level positions. I didn't quit my Gov't job till I was making 25x in day trading-few mil in the bank but I had already had long term trading going well way before this time. When most come to day trading, they sort of mentally prepared unlike getting laid off, really hard to have to make money and have nothing going on the side as stress piles on you.

    Perhaps, if can't find job at end of one year, drop down one level and ever year thereafter, continue to conservatively day trade and expand your business seeking more clients, never know, after a year your consulting business might take off and you have more time to learn longer term trading, don't think Buffet day trades.
    #35     Dec 11, 2016
    trader99 likes this.
  6. Interesting take on this. My consulting business is doing fine, but like any new biz it will take time to ramp up. My clients are happy so far and there's potential to expand further since I haven't even expend efforts on the biz dev side of things( don't even have a website, no marketing, etc.). It's just some people I know and worked in the past that I'm working with that is paying me great rates. So, there's a germ of possibility of great success but I have to put more biz dev effort to make it great. If this is the route I want to go then I should put all of my energy there and stop looking for a job and just focusing on expanding this consulting biz is what my wife is saying. I have the credentials, the skills, the experience she said. Just need to do it!

    About marketable skills, I'm in a hot area(at least for now). I get recruiters' calls everyday. So, that's why I'm hesitant to go down 2-3 levels especially when my skillset is in demand! Just need to wait it out for the right position...But in tech what's hot now maybe not hot in 3-4 years. Therefore, I love to learn and continue to upgrade my skills. I don't have a problem with marketability.

    So, what's your suggestion? Wait it out for a good Corporate job while consulting on the side? Build up longer term trading system as well as daytrade on the side?

    I definitely think it's unwise to daytrade full-time now due to the stress of making money everyday. But daytrading/swing trading on the side is fine and doing tech consulting as a source of income until I either expand my consulting biz or find the appropriate level job.

    Is that the best route? And just reject any job offers that don't fit my criteria?
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
    #36     Dec 11, 2016
  7. Handle123


    I have known several through either getting laid off or tried their hand in day trading and what has always happened is they had to restart going down levels of management just to get back into automation, automobile, electronics divisions and took some a decade to get back to what they were once before, none did what I recommended by getting something on the side going or part time, so when they ran out of funds, they had to take anything. You are in a fairly good position, but I wouldn't be taking lower anything for now, hold out for something better than you did, continue with your consulting and try to beef up and if you should get another position, keep some of what you are doing on the side as that be extra money to invest or take in an intern for summers or part time. Sometimes working for a firm better deal than working your own biz, many more bennies. And if you go that route, learn longer term trading off weekly charts. Day trading is not what most people think it be like, when you HAVE to make money, it is very stressful, at least to me, I am finding automation much more relaxing, as is long term. Commission really add up in day trading and it doesn't take long to forget rules unless you doing it each day. Also, nothing wrong with starting businesses and hire other people to do them, lot's of people needing jobs.
    #37     Dec 11, 2016
  8. Thanks for the perspective. In no uncertain terms will I be daytrading full-time! Been there, done that already(back in 2001-2003).

    My plan is

    1) Continue my consulting to keep my afloat
    2) Continue to look for appropriate level jobs and don't settle until I find something right. Since I do have money coming in from consulting. It's not like I need the job this minute.
    3) Develop some longer term trading systems so that when I do land that great job I can swing trade on the side or better yet have the system swing trade for me.

    Your idea of hiring other people to do some of my work sounds good. I'm not at a stage where I can do that. If I start getting a lot clients then obviously I can't do all the work myself. When I cross that bridge, then it will be a good problem to have. That's the route my wife has been pushing me toward.

    She said I'm wasting my time interviewing when I should spend that time working on my biz. I told her I'm hedging in case the consulting biz doesn't take off.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
    #38     Dec 11, 2016
  9. Handle123


    I actually think you could do better in consulting biz as if the economy changes to worse, there is going to be lay-offs and companies rather hire off-site than be saddled with employees. Put up web site and go full tilt if you going to be going at it, contact everyone you can think and network, send out to all the companies in your field of your off-site biz, you never know, one of them could hire you full time off that. And do it right by going LLC to reduce risk. Good luck.
    #39     Dec 11, 2016
  10. Hi ETers,

    Long time no post! Just ran across this post from Brett Steenbarger

    I know it's from 2007 blog post. But it speaks succinctly and clearly to my dilemma of trading on different timeframes! This just hit the nail on the head of the problems I've had in the past.

    I would look charts on a daily timeframe and initiate the trade intraday. Sometimes that means I would go countertrend on intraday basis. And I would get killed and get out at the worst possible prices(intraday)/ But had I wait a few days later it would go my way in a huge way. Symmetrically, if I do short-term daytrade scalp and I start looking at the daily chart then I would hold onto losers for too long!

    Stick with one time frame.

    This means the information processing system one used to do swing trading is very difficult from short-term intraday trading.

    That's why the Robinhood account where I usually exclusively swing trade I do really well. And the IB account where I exclusively daytrade I do fine.

    It's the IB account when I mixed the timeframe that I get shaken out at the worst possible times.

    But the article also mentions those who do intraday trading(not swing or pure scalping) has it toughest because they have to integrate two separate viewpoints.

    "When, however, a trader operates at a time frame that is intraday, but not at the level of scalping ticks, we have a unique cognitive challenge: the need to integrate perceptually-based expertise with an explicit knowledge base. Or, more simply, the need to integrate one's instincts with one's reason."

    Maybe that's why it's so hard to mix the timeframes. Either be a pure scalper or a pure long term investor/trader ??...

    Just living and learning..


    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
    #40     Apr 22, 2017