Discussion in 'Trading' started by trader99, Dec 6, 2016.
What do you consider huge in this case?
He'd take them all.
What, 1-2k lots? That's decent.... A mate of mine used to trade Bund/Bobl/Schatz 15 years ago. That was all about 80% scratch... and try to get the other 20% in 1 tick profit. Nerve-game...
I myself hate scalping...
And it's only gotten to be superhero level to scalp these days. That's why the Chicago prop group business model morphed away from point-and-click and into far fewer firms and high levels of automation (more or less).
bone et al,
that's a great point. That's why I've decided to continue working full-time in the highly paid tech sector. After my layoff, I went out of the country for vacation for a month. Just got back recently and now back to interviewing. Hopefully back on track soon. For a while I was entertaining if I should daytrade full-time. But after all of you guys inputs, I've decided not to.
The funny thing is I think I have finally gotten some semblance of an "edge." Back in 2001-2003 when I was started daytrading(back then prop), I couldn't make money if my life depended on it. The results were just beyond dismal! My current $100-$500 days would be a distant dream. I would tell myself even if I just make something positive each day then I would last long enough to get up that learning curve.
Eventually, I gave up on daytrading. Went back to corporate world. Gained a bunch of marketable skills. Went to grad school. Got my graduate degree. Then got a nice bump in salary afterwards and every year since it has been a really good steady climb and sometimes high jumps in salary. I'm NOT telling you guys to showoff. I could care less.
My point is that once you are in a good track professionally, daytrading becomes less attractive. But I kept at it though. Trading on/off for years while I work professionally. In the mornings. And occasionally at weeknights and Sunday nights. Mostly days but not every day. There were long stretches of time that I didn't even trade at all.
Now I'm finally consistently making money on most days. Of course, I have down days(who doesn't). I'm pretty confident I can make net profits probably on most months if I really focus at it.
But my risk profile changed... I'm married and have a kid. Back in 2001-2003 it was just me. Now, I got a house and mortgage(though it's pretty reasonable and manageable).
I think if I just scale up more contracts I can easily make some decent coin. My best single one day trade was $17K across three accounts. You can read it here: https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/how-to-scale-what-to-do-next.298609/page-2#post-4297631
It was an amazing feeling. Of course, not every day I can do that. I feel I have finally overcome the hump and crossed to the other side. But ironically, I can't do it full-time now since the opportunity cost is too high given my professional tech job pays well with zero risk. Of course, there's always the risk of the occasional layoffs. But that happens to all white collar jobs occasionally. You just pick yourself up and get another one.
Yet, life catches up to you. At my age(still young but not that young), I can't sit in front of the computer all day in hopes of making something. I wished I knew everything I know now back in 2001-2003 when I was carefree and had almost unlimited buying power through the prop shop. And even then prop trading was dying by the time 2003 rolled around. There's a time and place for everything...
I guess the best I can do is just continue to refine my daytrading on a part-time basis...
I have a client right now that I've been training for 16 months. Full time job. Wants to keep it. He has been paper trading for 14 months with returns and metrics that are exceptional - he wants to start live trading his own account early 2017. I have another client who I spent 18 months with who is now, since we started, at an IB in NYC - they liked his interest rate Spread trading acumen.
You're welcome to independently contact these clients and query them.
I think the hard part for me is sometimes confusing between daytrading and swing trading signals.
For example, on a daytrading signal I should sell, but on a swing trading signal I should hold.
It's bad when I sell because I can't stand the intraday drawdowns and sell at the lows or cover at the local highs when in a multi-day chart it's all part of the path.
If I just focus on daytrading then I should just follow my 5min,1min charts and get in and out accordingly and not hold because at a higher time frame it shows otherwise.
Vice versa. On my longer term trades, I shouldn't be shaken out by intraday noise.
I think your anxiety regarding getting shaken out of a trade meant to be held longer term is natural. That's why spread trades are so attractive - the margins are almost always in the hundreds of dollars and the drawdowns are equally timid. If you want to learn to swing trade outright flat price, I would suggest the mildest and lowest vol products you can find - like a 2yr Note future, or say 100 shares of SPY. For a day trader to transition to swing trading takes some emotional acceptance and a real step change in approach. The good thing about trading such modest risk is that once you put together a nice, consistent, protracted performance string you can lever immediately.
Anxiety is real, it affects you, and there's nothing to gain by ignoring it or burying it. IMHO the key is to moderate it to the point where you can allow a trading strategy to work in the market unencumbered. My 2 cents, YMMV.
I assume by swing trade you mean long term? What's long term in your case, which time period?
My 2 cents, you can trade both... but you need to separate them. Either physically by having 2 accounts, or just mentally or with a excel spreadsheet or something.
Also, you could try to daytrade based on the long term trade. So, if long term signal is up and you are long, you can sell on basis of short term... but only to flat position. So don't go short overall...
I DO have 2 separate classes of accounts. 2 for daytrading(IB). 1 for swing(Robinhood zero commission).
Of the 2 daytrading accounts, one daytrading account I use for both swing and daytrading(futures & stocks). That was a mistake. Because I would get so confused. If you look at my IB account and look at the closed trades each day, I'm mostly net profitable for months on end.
But because I also swing trade on that account, I'm net down since I was holding onto losers for too long(days&weeks) confusing the swing & daytrades. I would be down HUGE. If I just sold and cover everything each day on that account and keep it purely daytrading then I would be up nicely. Because I mixed the two my track record on that mixed account is dismal.
Yet for my Robinhood account where I exclusively swing trade, I'm up nicely.
When I try to daytrade my Robinhood account I get out too soon because I get shaken by small moves when I'm in the daytrading mindset. But when I'm in the swing trading mindset, I can easily ignore the fluctuations and wait for my big moves and ride it as far as I can. But my shortcoming is that I don't ride the move to the maximum. I would ride the move for a while thinking this is a good enough move. Get out then it moves some more and then some more. I mean I regret a little but it's hard to complain too much when you capturing many multiple points move.
And for the daytrade account where I exclusively(for the most part 99% of the time) daytrade, I'm up nicely.
That's where the confusions lie.
So, there's something to be said about separating the accounts mentally and physically. And wearing different thinking hats when I trade them...
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