Discussion in 'Politics' started by omcate, Feb 29, 2004.
what does democratic voting have to do with black community success?
Yes, I do believe there is a higher being. Call it what yu may. I choose God.
Yes, I do believe there is a higher being. Call it what you may. I choose God.
Canyonman, I think you are doing an admirable job and I hope you keep it up. I just want to mention that first, because I otherwise disagree with you, but I hope you don't take it personally because you're one of the few people on ET I like.
I find most of what you say below based on personal anecdotes, which are fine as far as they go, but we are looking at a macroscopic picture of the black community here (or trying to). From that vantage point, I think you'd have to agree that either these "reachable, touchable, realistic role models" aren't available to a great deal of blacks or that the results they are achieving have yet to make an impact on the statistics.
So I'll have to return to the fatherless households that some half of the black population grows up in and again claim it is quite likely to be a leading contributing factor in the failure of significant portions of the black community to raise their socioeconomic level.
Even if just having a father figure around for the sake of simple examples of seeing daddy go off to work (which kid didn't wanna be "just like daddy", no matter what daddy did) or getting a "well done son"; just innocent things like that, which taken alone are not much but tend to add up over time.
And of course (a biggie), there are plainly obvious benefits to having either two parents working (two incomes) or one working and the other staying home and raising the kids; something not possible in single mother households.
Anyway, the point of all this is just to highlight what I think are the leading causes of the problems afflicting the black community. Not to suggest that the government needs to get involved to "solve" these problems ('cos we all know the track record of those efforts).
There is something else that is worth mentioning. That's the effect of years influence of liberal idiots in the education system that has introduced the moral relativism approach to raising kids, which, in effect, means there are millions of kids out there unable to understand that some of the things they might do are just plain damn wrong. Not "different", but wrong. Millions of kids who not only don't have any respect for "authority", but are unable to even properly conceive the notion of authority.
Now there's something that the government can actuall do something about. Can these moronic liberal education intiatives.
No trouble with your disagreement here. That's what folks do sometimes. And that too can be healthy as it could get us closer to real solutions. Now let's see if I can construct a more accurate puzzle for us both. For certain segments of the populace of African Americans, we are both right. There is no monolithic answer nor a blanket cure. There are several solutions to this multi-faceted issue. We just need to make sure that all folks get the access to the opportunities that are available.
And the role models are available and plentiful. But they don't make millions, or play in front of crowds on TV and seem to have few apparent responsibilities. The other thing that is interesting in the eyes of the masses is that they appear to be accepted by white America. They're allowed to live in the best homes and buy the most expensive stuff. That all dwarfs $45,000 a year working your butt off.
The other understanding is that even with Utopia there will be those who still will not achieve. They will claim foul and look to helping hands. And somewhere out there will be those who say, "We Must Do More!"
I find the whole issue of what the USA needs to do to let the inner city black people improve their condition to be a very difficult issue to even get a grip on.
I know that we have anti discrimination laws because african/americans do get discriminated against some times.
Then the laws goes into place and some african americans figure out how to work the system. Making it expensive and difficult to fire an unproductive a/a person. So small business people shy away from hiring them.
I remember in Washington D.C. when we used to play a match or tournament at Howard University which in the mid 80s and probably still is a pretty black neighborhood. . When we walked around the community into the stores there, the stores owned by the older people had photos of what was vibrant economic community black (at the time negro) businessmen had serving blacks prior to anti discrimnation laws. We even got to talking with one of the older guys and he told some great stories and had some interesting insights.
It was truly fascinating to me. In some ways the anti racism laws have sucked econmic vitality out of the black community.
Is this another example of why we shuould let the free market work without government interference?
I know that (I think it was David Stockman) wrote of book stating that welfare marginalised the black man in inner city neighborhoods because he was not needed to provide for his family.
I do not claim to have the answers, I just know the the answers are difficult. I am not opposed to means tested affrimative action programs. So please do not take what I wrote above as a conservative agenda. (By the way I think all programs should be means tested, I am appalled that my parents and in-laws are getting nice sized S.S. checks out of a ponzi scheme.)
back in the day ( miami Beach circa 1960's ) ...as i have been told...signs used to say "no dogs, cats or Cubans"....now we own the mother fucking place......thru hard work, family values and the help of America.....peace
Sorry about that, if we could do it over again I can promise you we would never openly discriminate against Dogs
I learned alot from this post.
You have to wonder if government programs actually
did more harm than good: (as usual )
Separate names with a comma.