Sorry, had to jump in...your comment is absolutely false. I know the trader in question, and our risk management was all over it, shut him down and closed his position. Rumors can fly, but when it comes to outright falsehoods, I must take exception. Our risk management system did exactly what it was supposed to do. I was personally involved in this, just after the manager called me, I handed the phone to my brother, and we took control immediately. Just because we keep plenty of money in reserve for such events, does not mean that we will allow this to happen. (didn't mean to sound harsh, but I had to straightent this out right away). Don
If you have not seen a big blow up, you have not been trading for very long. It is the manager or owner's job to take control and mitigate the damages; that is proper risk control. Having it happen shouldn't bring any negative inflections on the firm.
I of course cannot comment on any traders individual success or failure (in this case), but let me just say that when a trader blatantly violates their signed contractual parameters, we as a firm cannot allow them to continue with us. We have never had a trader lose more than a couple of hundred grand in a single, isolated incident that I can recall. The point is simply that we have excellent Supervisory software, and what we have recentyl received for SLK (new "stuff") is even better and more helpful. Most of our traders are never a problem, the few that pop up are usually fine after a discussion or two. When there is an isolated circumstance of poor judgement, we simply have to enforce the rules. Thanks for bringing up a good point.!!
Hey Don, I think Bright should consider an idea for a new revenue stream: offer your risk control model to the ibank trading desks, they seem to have a problem with nine figure blowups every other week or so
Bright and Echo both offer seminars. I went to the Bright Seminar in Feb, the Echo in March. I learned a lot ... not so much what was taught in the classes, but the externals ... viewing the office, chatting with traders there, seeing how the "experts" interact with the participants, getting the dirt on one firm from another, seeing if Pro. trading is really how it's hyped to be. Bright: The seminar is 5 days long however it can be easily covered in about 8-12 hours. Two strategies were covered ... opening orders and momentum trading. Pairs/Merg/arg was discussed, however I didn't really consider specifics were touched to consider this strategy being fully disclosed. A "blueprint" or timeline of a typical trading day was provided. All-in-all, the handouts consisted of a 9 page booklet and a few single-page handouts. I took some good notes. I came away with a general overview of what prop. trading was about. I didn't seem to learn anything specific strategies that I could immediately apply to my trading. A big push for signup and consistent encouragement to come trade in Las Vegas was present. Part of Thurs. evening was dedicated to signup. The morning session (seeing the opening) field trip was ok. Got to see the traders from the viewing perch. Didn't get to see Don trade so the rest of the time was practically worthless. Don explained how the Fair Value was calculated, then disappeared into his office to trade. He came back 10 minutes later saying he made some $. I mentioned that it might be a "little" more helpful if we could actually watch him trading. He commented that he wanted to trade and this wasn't practical. I'm sorry ... I thought my $1000 fee to attend your seminar would give me some consideration. Earl was a humorous and lively speaker. He was generally good, however he did get a few things backward (saying the DJ index wasn't weighed and a few other small details). Earl did ridicule a seminar participant (sorry Corey) in front of everyone which was unprofessional and rude. Bob was a very straightforward person. Very direct and truthful. Every question I asked he answered bluntly. No BS filtering necessary. Don was generally a good speaker, however there were some times that blanks had to be filled in with some missing (key) pieces of information. The Bright office in LV looked a little tired. The computers were a little rough with mixed-matched monitors and the like. It reminded me of my college graduate computer lab Overall, I give the seminar experience a C-. The handouts were scarce, the instructors had little patience for participants struggling with concepts (including yours truly on tape reading), there was a lot of filler and certain, hard questions were dodged. Don teaching one night in jogging pants wasn't the classiest either. A BIG disappointment was not being able to actually talk w/several traders at Bright during the day. I requested this and Don refused saying traders "Don't want to be bothered ... they want to trade and make money" (his words) Echo: Their seminar was a little hard to sign up for. A few calls to Teri did the trick, though. There was some question whether the March seminar was going to be in San Diego or Las Vegas. A little encouragement to have it in SD sealed me visiting the firm. The class sessions were long and there were a few times when I was in a fog. The jet lag didn't help but I personally appreciated the class being taught on the weekend. I didn't have to stay for 5 days like I did in LV at the Bright Seminar (their seminar could be easily taught in 1.5 - 2 days). Jonathan, Aly, and Robert conveyed some good info. There wasn't time built into the seminar for recruitment (a nice touch). I don't mind people trying to recruit participants, but do it outside of classroom time. The handouts were substantial ... a huge book and two supplemental handouts on tape reading and Aly's technique for trading the market. The main book has a lot of background material, a listing of the SP stocks, a glossary and such. This could be labled filler, but reference only material is more appropriate. The reason I say this is that lecture time wasn't dedicated to reciting this material. The book did include three strategies outlined for use ... momentum trading (breakouts and playing news), opening orders and pairs/arbs. A lunchtime technique for playing low volume periods was also discussed somewhat. There was definitely more "meat" in this seminar than the previous discussed. Another key difference was the interaction of the instructors w/participants. I struggled with tape reading and asked the same question 4-5 times. The instructors were patient and attempted to answer my (and other's) questions completely. A huge bonus was being able to visit the office on the next two trading days and see how things ran. Granted, there were fewer trader in the office now than there are reportedly now. However I didn't get the anticipated attitude from different traders that I was pestering them. I asked a few questions and my inquiries were welcome. The Echo office in SD is gorgeous. New equipment, nice view from the 8th floor of a new building, nice eye candy in the Mission Valley area. Each trading station had internet access ... my understanding is the standard Bright station in LV did not. Overall, I give my experience there a B+. The instruction was good, office was nice and clean, the handout material adequate. The days were a bit long and some sections dragged on. At some points the instruction didn't flow smoothly. I understand that neither the guys at Bright or Echo claim to be professional speakers, but traders. Bottom line, goto both seminars. Learn as much as you can before deciding to enter this tough game. Make sure your common sense hat on as there is a lot of not-quite-the-truths and missing-link facts going on. I've personally been considering going Pro. for approx. six months. My conclusion (i.e. opinion) is that trading is extremely tough ... it can be done, however why not take the path of least resistance. Being the house is better than trying to beat the house. I've decided not to go pro. as a career. In the future, I may get my 7 so I can trade as a hobby, however it's much easier for me to make better, consistent money by other risk-adverse means.
I don't understand why so many people pay money to go to those "seminars" (actually they sound more like recruitment programs to me.) Everything they tell you can be learned by reading an introduction to trading book. Keep your money(you'll need it when you start.) Go to a firm and talk with the traders...not the management. The guys in charge will tell you anything to get your business. The traders will tell you the truth. If you still want to pursue this as a career, see if you can work out a deal with an experienced trader. Let him/her teach you the nuances of the game(for a small cut of your profits/commissions...for a set amount of time.) With the slow summer months coming, some good traders who would normally pass on training someone might give it a chance. Good luck.
To gather information. Talking to other people considering the career move ... talking to management. Talk to other traders. Compare notes with others and see what is truthful or otherwise. $1000 is nothing compared to the time and other expense of relocating to trade in an office or blowing your deposit before discovering you don't know what you are doing? Talking with other traders is nice, but you won't get the whole picture. Talk to managers, owners, other trading prospects, people who have blown out or left. That's where you get the reality. I personally consider it a blessing of spending the $2k plus travel expenses. I got to see LV and SD .. haven't been to either place in a few years. I got to meet some great people .. .even made a few friends . I learned much about the business and reinforced the understanding that it's statistically better to provide a service/product than to actually do a profession. Do you want to be the gold rush speculator or sell picks and shovels? My due diligence has helped me conclude that pro trading isn't for me. If spending $2k plus expenses saved me from making a mistake in going pro. then it's money well worth it!
Hey I read your post about your experience at Bright and your experience at Echo, thanks for posting about Echo..some of us don;t have time or the money to go to every prop firms training session, I had already made up my mind to join Bright ..I went to more or less confirm what I had been monitoring for over 3 years...Bright that is. Anyway...RE> A BIG disappointment was not being able to actually talk w/several traders at Bright during the day. Funny I talked to no less that 5 current Bright Traders that were in class with me, some we brand new and a few were trading for many years, I had no problem getting access to them at all. Good trading all, mrktwiz