I'm sorry but if you wanna run a prop firm military style, you are treating ur traders like employees. Hence, pay a salary & a draw LIKE A REAL PROP FIRM. You can't expect a guy to stay 2-3 hours after market close to review trades if he has a 2nd job which he got to make sure he can financially survive and gives himself the proper time to become profitable. That's real dedication and discipline. Until you have done this, you won't know.
Do not even get in the game if you are not capitalized, I started in 1998-99 and got lucky with a 50K account as those were different time and there was much more opportunity. The mistakes that you could make back than were no different than today but you do not have the same opportunities nor volatility to cover those up over the day. That party is over and BOT and systems have taken over that game and I do not even trade the same markets I did 5 years ago nor 3 years ago. If you do not adapt to each new cycle and environment than you are very unlikely to make it here as a Prop guy or Semi Prop with your own capital.
slightly off topic but as I see some traders here with prop or ( prior prop ) experience I should like to ask them if any of them or if they know of any others in their firms ( no firm names need be mentioned ) in the last few yrs are successfully trading XAU sector listed and otc names intraday and or swing trading these I sometimes am using them in pairs or against the ETF's as pairs etc and am wondering whom my competition is
prop futures ? how many traders might you say "make the grade" or survive after a yr or so at these types of firms ? by the way ... most of my trades are futures these days
pineman, I notice you still refuse to answer the basic question. Your story is not way off - your conclusions are. Good luck to you
I'll be trying my hand at a prop firm sometime in the summer and all I can say is Win or lose... I wont be blaming anyone but myself. Know the company, know the commissions and how their reputation, policies and ranking is relative to other firms. Learn what expected of you before you join! ASK QUESTIONS about their operations and speak to other traders if possible. Review them and research them on forums such as this one. If they try to tell you how to trade then leave for another prop firm. Why put up with any BS? Its your money at stake and they are just giving you the leverage in exchange for commissions. I can understand some of the bitter feelings newbies might have about losing money at prop firms but posting about it without accepting any responsibility for the losses amounts to nothing more licking their wounds and sour grapes in open public. Funny but you can bet that those same newbies would be singing the praises of ABC or XYZ prop firm if the trading gods had looked favorably upon them. Maybe not even posting at all since they are doing so well i.e. some posts are only to vent about losing money while re-directing blame in another direction. The way I see it there is no real reason to even join a prop firm unless you are undercapitalized and need the leverage and already have a trading strategy that works for you. You get better deals on commissions elsewhere if you have enough capital to bypass the prop firm. The traders who lose often blame the prop firm but I think the fact of the matter is that a good and disciplined trader is going to make money just about anywhere you stick him/her. Granted I'm more in favor of remote trading since I dont need to be distracted by any office politics, other traders and their ideas or unnecessary commutes. I dont think the prop firm is the place to learn about trading. You should have already taken all your lumps in the head and/or gave pints of blood on the battle field and recovered as a wiser man or woman before you set foot in a prop firm. The mistake is thinking the prop firm will educate you and teach you to make money. Learn only from another trader thats already successful and has the track record to prove it (if you absolutely must learn at the prop firm) The prop firm in my humble opinion is just the venue by which you trade. They are not there to hold your hand and spoon feed you. You either know what you are doing or you dont. Its that simple.
I would like to respond to a response a few pages back. I'm a little disappointed here that Hydroblunt and a few others view trading as some kind of entitlement. It is not your constitutional right to be able to trade at a prop firm. If one goes to college and graduates and can't find a job in the real world, the prop world owes that person nothing. Nobody is forcing anyone to trade. You don't have to do it. So why do so many on here feel they are entitled to lots of money vis-a-vis a prop firm. It really saddens me that so many on ET feel this way. If you don't want to trade prop or don't have the ability to trade, then get a real job. That's what most people have to do sooner or later. Now I am not at all saying that it is right for a prop firm to lie to a new trader or mislead them. I also think that all traders should be treated professionally. But beyond that, prop firms owe you nothing. If you are fortunate to work at a firm and get into a good group where you have a good mentor, then consider yourself very fortunate. But nobody owes you anything. If you fail at trading, please look within yourself and not blame the firm or others. I worked with one of the most lucrative groups within Worldco. We had a great mentor that spent a lot of time teaching us to tape read. I really don't know what more this guy could have done for us. Yet, only a few of us out of about 40 ever took home checks. Over 90% of them never did. And it was not the mentor's fault. It's simply the fact that most people simply are not cut out for this job.
MAV my man, the reason so many on ET feel that they are "Owed", "entitled to" Prop shops money...they are socialist. Only socialist could think that way. The majority of these posters sound like MARX in his works within the Communist Manifesto. Instead of "Land Owners" vs "Land Labor" it is now DAY TRADER vs "WHO HAS THE ACCESS TO CAPITAL". Since when did the "Trading" world become an entitlement or a constitutional right for leverage?
Outstanding post by MomO/pHOx. A Barry Bond like home run that makes you go WOW. He said: 1. If trader puts up his own capital at a Prop shop he is the boss. The prop shop is NOT a prop its just any old brokerage firm but its providing trader with HUGE leverage which say Schwab, E-trade etc, do not provide. 2. If trader puts zero down and gets a % of what he makes every month with no salary/draw trader is NOT an employee. But as Mom0/pHOx said the firm is the boss. Like a stripper once told me (I don't get paid to work here but they do allow me to dance and if I make money I get to keep some of it). If you have trading experience and capital, go with Broker providing leverage. Remember the broker works for you. If no capital/experience go with zero down, follow what the partners are saying, learn how to trade and maybe make some money.