Thanks to All... Especially Hydroblunt, Syswizard, and BraZILIANWONDER....AND THE CLUELESS Maverick74 To all the others...If all you can see is a free lunch and dressing code....then I am sorry for you ! Above all, Brazilianwonder, let me tell you the BS I went through, I first came to this site, knew about it way before i joined. I came to the source, a least I though i was getting good info at Elitetrader...see for your self, click link below, if it doesn't work click on the post numbers below my name, I did my " Due Diligence " I also e- mail numerous so call , like I said, so call Traders to ask their inputs on " Time & Sale " , Props Firms, etcs .....I am still waiting for an answer, so much for asking for help ! ..... http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1770640 Even you Brazilillian ask me a question on 7/16/06, check your in box....the truth of the matter is that a lot of so call traders on here or a bunch of wannabe traders at Goldman ! more or less clueless, or lets call it what it is" Speculators " that is what i do in the FX market I speculate ! I'll try to make this real short...when I started ...I was making way over 150k working in the corporate America , series 7,63, and 24....in the business for 15 years now ! right out of college, started at D H Blair right in back of the King of Wall St. Al Palagonia, so making Big $ is nothing new...Bank Of America took over my company, I was given a package....35, 4 buildings, money was not an issue for me... So I went after hour for the interview, therefore, coming from corp America and didn't know so much mis-fits were in this place, The Head trader " closed " me like i saw Al closed numerous million dollar accounts.... Why I picked there, I was promised, or led to believe that i am a partner, the Head trader himself will show me how to trader, how can you turn down a deal like that ? Daily training, the group trade together...etc all lies... I was sold, like i said it was my call i got conned ! First off the no formal training ..JUST PURE BS WHEN HE HAD A GOOD DAY...REVIEW OUR TRADES, NEVER HIS, NEVER HIS.... went over times and sale...you know all the BS. None of the senior traders, maybe 5 of them make any money on a regular basis , so right there was another red flag, they would bang the desk, I mean some real emotional wrecks , now you never see all this until you are knee deep in " shit. " now a room of 20 traders, no one said hello, good morning, etc... I am now saying what set of losers ! Yeah we are here to make money, but if you have such a small amount of traders and you can't exchange ideas , I am sorry, something is wrong ! The bottom line 90% of them were anti-social . I made more money buying options before I when to this racket ! Hydroblunt, you hit the nail on the head... " you need to have a sense of camaraderie " and " So your job is to make sure you can properly support all of them to nurture the true talent. Instead of just treating them all like worthless crap," I am so glad you picked up on that... only a small thinker would think i am looking for free food...... I will stop for now.....
pineman - you hit the nail on the head buddy. i was going to create a thread similar to this basically warning all new traders to stay away from ALL prop firms - especially around NYC. The only legit prop firm is one that pays a salary or will at least let you trade their money after real training. A new trader has no business being in a prop firm because you're basically unemployable after you go the prop chop route. All these prop chops 'interviewing' college grads for 'jobs' are basically con artists that are misleading and ruining the career prospects for the guy being 'interviewed'. These prop shop owners are the scum of the earth. Good traders trade, bad traders try to make money off commissions. Furthermore - hanging around a bunch of anti-social misfits will wreck your mind after a while. That being said - if you're already a profitable trader that does 100k+ shares a day and you can get a deal for .002/share then and only then does trading at a prop firm make sense.
prop firm owners that lure new traders into the industry with promises of training and riches are the biggest low lifes of society - worse than drug dealers and pimps. after a guy wastes two years of his life in a prop firm - he learns all the improper ways to speculate, bad habits that will be hard to be get rid off + he's down over 100k in opportunity costs of not having a salary + he's unemployable in corporate america + his mind is all messed up from this whole ordeal.
it very simple. treat people like shit any you have a shitty firm with a shitty reputation. every employee doesn't give a shit and wants to leave. every person who leaves says the firm is shit.
chewbacca: Amen to that...I fully agree.....to make a long story short, another fella, about 29 started before me...I called him about a month ago, still there....16 months didn't take home a check yet, i ask him if he's still on crack ? I feel it for these ppl....they are a bunch of criminals.
The original Model of a "propshop" founded by Schonfeld Securities is no longer valid. I had a great run and a true learning experience while Trading for schonfeld in the last Bull Market. However, just as markets change so do Props. Schonfeld decided to lean down after the Bear Market. Many of the succesful traders moved on to trade retail. The dynamics have changed and now most of the Prop Shops are nothing more than Vegas giving you leverage for your dollar. Day trading as defined by the the last bull market is dead. Volitility isn't anything near what it was during the early 'Currency Crises in Russia" nor through the 9 month run in the last bull of 99. Very few stocks move 5 points let alone 40 points and playing both sides of the market minus any volititly will have you end up with zero -minus commish..... To day is a totally diffrent market and many prop shops do not know how to trade it, or they hang on to the old school mentality of SOES bandits hitting every penny in a move. E
There is a very fine line between speculating successfully where you enrich yourself financially and personally and gambling where you go broke and ruin your life. And these prop firms really don't give a fuck if you start gambling away all your money - in fact they prefer it because it generates more commissions for them. Its funny how you're really just a customer at a prop firm yet they want you to believe you're a 'partner' - how funny is that. Vegas should use that line for their ads "Come to Vegas, come partner with us to make money." Shit even Vegas and every other casino in this country is required to offer resources for those battling gambling.
i hope these college kids aren't choosing prop firms over a regular paying job. i suspect the ones who go into prop didn't have other job offers.
Couldn't really say... I am still friends with three of them ! The majority to me were clueless and didn't belong in such a place....I mean you had people there who knew nothing about " shorting " a stock. I saw both young and clueless and a a lot of middle age folks ! i THiNK AS LONG AS YOU HAD 5K FOR CAPITAL YOU WERE IN... now that I think about it, i didn't see the need for an interview except if you had 5k .... ? After about a two months, I knew this dream of minds wasn't for me.....stay around for another month while I was setting up my management comp. The only good thing I can say about them is that they returned the balance of my 3k right away.