Mo, We are not a broker firm that pretends to be a prop firm. We do not misrepresent our firm. We do not pretend to hire people. We are none of the things you claimed we were. So why do you insist on saying that I run such a firm when I don't. Why do you keep casting me in a negative light as if I run a boiler room? Can you answer any of these questions? No ad hominem here.
Mom0, I have no incentive to defend Mav, other than to set the record straight. I contacted him last year, explained my trading habits and needs, and was offered a commission rate on standard equity options that is <b>slightly better than any other deal I've ever been offered, anywhere.</b> I'm not certain about the competitiveness of Mav's commission rates on equities or futures, but I can assure you that the deal I was offered on standard, non-exotic options was <b>nothing</b> like what you describe. I'm not working with Mav's firm at this point in time, but I can't rule out doing so in the future. Another thing; I've <b>never</b> seen any evidence that Mav pretends to 'hire' his clients for so-called 'jobs'. Perhaps you're confusing his firm with someone else?
FWIW, "brokerage houses" are limited to 2 to 1 or 4 to 1 leverage. When a firm gives their traders access to $millions, then the term Prop or, perhaps more appropriate "professional" trading firm applies. Our traders (as Mav's) are using the firm's capital to trade with...the big distinction is that our traders keep all their profits...a big benefit for simply putting up a few bucks of risk capital. "Prop" firms, by your definition, make more money in a couple of months from the traders they decide to keep (profitable traders who trade enough volume) than the trader ..... and if the trader were to have that money (the firm's portion), then he could put it up and keep all his profits...does anyone really think that the "true prop" firms are in the business of making their employees more money than the firm makes. Heck, we have traders who make more in month than our share of commissons would amount to in a year. If you're making good money, then you would likely want to keep all your profits...if you're more comfortable as an employee, then by all means stay attached to your "prop" firm. It's just a personal choice, not some major "life or death" decision. Don
Hey Momo I just wanted to clear something up. Refco did not have many sp traders like you said. Initially they hired myself and a few guys who traded sp's in the upstairs office. The reason they shyed away from sp's was their idiotic "give it one tick and out" method did not work out at all. As far as holding time....very few (if any) traders held positions for a few hours. That was totally against their style. They wanted guys churning the hell out of the accounts. I remember clearly one day one of the higher ups all excited because the room scratched p/l, but did a ton of commissions. That was really their only interest. Maybe after I left one or two guys could do that, but no way half of the guys were position trading/holding for hours. I stayed in touch with some of the guys there and things didnt change much at all after I was gone.
OK, I'm going to have to defend myself again here against these complete inaccuracies. Although, I'll keep the ad hominem out of it. First of all, 80% of our business is options and equities (mostly related to hedging of options, not straight up equity trading). The other 20% is futures. Second, your friends that called got a high rate on purpose. Our firm started a policy about two years ago to discourage rate shoppers. These were people who would call us up, say they traded 20k cars a month, then we would give them .10 a side or .05 a side and they would end up trading 430 contracts for the month. So this is what we did. We tell every trader we give them a standard rate. We don't care how much they tell us they trade. It might be 100k cars a month, it might be 10. Everyone gets the SAME rate. After two months, if they do the volume they say will do, we will give them the lowest rate and rebate them the difference. Or futures rates were as low as .05 a side Momo. I hardly would call that a ripoff. I have to admit, before we engaged in this new policy I got taken in a by a guy that said he was heavy hitter. He knows who he is. We didn't give me a .05 but we gave him like a .35 a side rate. He said he was going to trade 5k to 10k cars a month, thats not a lot, but not a newbie. The guy ended up trading 100 to 200 contracts a month. His excuse was he was struggling and wanted to cut back his size. Whatever. Anyway, I wanted to clear the air on this because momo is making a gross exaggeration here. Now, on to the prop side. Look Momo, our firm started off fully backing traders. EVERY trader. We backed market makers on the floor of the PCX. As guys started coming off the floor we started backing them upstairs. The problem was, guys did not have the same edge off the floor as they had on the floor. So instead, what we did is allow guys to trade off the floor, with the same haircuts, same tax advantages as they had on the floor but they put up their capital. This worked very well. We eventually opened this up to traders outside the floor environment and eventually moved into other markets, like equities, futures, commodities, FX. For the record Momo, we do back traders, full backed traders. Are they customers? How can they be? We have remote makers, a big part of our business now that are backed by firm capital. The reason is because they have an EDGE!!!!!! It was the same reason why we backed guys on the floor of the PCX. We also have backed SELECT futures traders and options traders. The key word being SELECT. More importantly, we have helped dozens of traders actually raise capital where they are trading millions of dollars, not their money. So we have a hybrid model of fully backed traders and traders who use leverage. Just like REFCO! Refco has a customer business, or had I should say, as well as a prop business. We are no different. I tell every trader I talk to, if they come into our firm and put numbers on their sheets, the firm can back them. The problem is very few guys can demonstrate they have a useful EDGE! Do you really think our firm is going to back a futures trader that uses RSI or MACD to trade spoos or bonds? Come on. Anyway, I just though I would clear this up Momo. I hate doing this shit because it comes off as blatant advertising for my firm and I'm sure Magna and Baron have been uncomfortably patient with this thread. It's not my intent to advertise here but I had to clear the air on this. When someone comes on here and completely distorts what our firm does, I feel have the right to defend our firm. If Magna or Baron delete this post or this thread, that is fine. I hope you read it before it gets deleted Momo because you know nothing about our firm. This is what really annoys me about this website and the people on here. It's like a high school girl's locker room. You make a few phone calls, talk to someone for a few seconds on the phone and you presume to know everything about that firm. That is very irresponsible. I have told everyone on this site that I will meet anybody in my office or talk to anyone on the phone if they have questions about what we do. I don't hide from anyone and I will bet a dime to a dollar that I'm the most honest, straightforward guy on this site. I call a spade a spade everytime, 7 days a week, twice on sunday. What annoys me, is when people are too scared to call me or meet in person but instead come on this message board and just spread bullshit because it empowers them. Whatever floats your boat. I said what I wanted to say. I think we are done here.
Mav, I have read your posts on this thread and wanted to ask your advice on some things. I have been trading stocks off and on now for about 3 years, made some money, lost some money, you know how it goes... So I have been trying to figure out a real edge for some time now. I think I have found it in EuroDollar spreads and have built some statistical models. I am interested in giving them a try to see if I am on to some thing or need to go back to the drawing board. Do you know of anyway way I could trade Eurodollar spreads on a simulator? If it went well on the simulator, I would be interested in talking with you about opening an account with your firm. Thanks
Frank, I know you directed the question to someone else but most forex brokers have simulators (game accounts) that let you paper trade. Try www.OANDA.com and set up a game account, it is free.
Midas, Thanks for the reply. I was looking to simulate trading EuroDollar spreads (90 day interest rates). Do you know of a place that will let a person simulate those markets? Thanks
Hey Mav, If after 2 months of trading if trader NOT doing enough volume do you BOOT them out or negotiate a higher rate and let them stay?? (Hoping they can improve their plan/system).
You have to cook Mav dinner and do his laundry until you meet your quota. Wait... or was that just me... MAV!