(continued from above) Not blaming. You have gone beyond stating their position (re: Jesus words). You have actually supported their position, specifically, that all the words the NT says are the words of Jesus are the words of Jesus. This is a very âChristianâ position, which makes me wonder if you are in league with them, perhaps unbeknownst to yourself. That doesnât mean you are guilty. It just means you are mistaken. I understand that. But youâve gone one step further and youâve endorsed their position, upholding the words of the NT to be the words of Jesusâ¦as absurd as that is. You have dismissed the possibility that only a fraction of such words may actually be authentic. Perhaps this is because you donât think Jesus was as historical a figure as you are. Itâs dishonest to turn around and say that if he was historical, and if he said anything at all, he must have said whatever the NT says he said. And yes, it puts some ignorant nasty things in his mouth. What motive could you possibly have for this except to discredit his legacy? What motive could Christians possibly have except to discredit his legacy also? That is why I suggest you are in the same league (with Christians)â¦to discredit the legacy of a truth-teller. I donât disagree. And there isnât any âcontextâ that can make them less despicable. They cannot be explained away except to explain that they are not his words, and the NT misrepresents. This makes the NT a fallacious documentâ¦some sort of fraud. Unlike Christians, I am not trying to save the âinfallibleâ reputation of the NT. Conversely, I am helping it fall, because it is built on sand (lies, misrepresentation, fraud, ignorance). I estimate that only between 5% and 20% of the words said to be Jesusâ words (in the NT) are authentic (his words, the words of the Spirit of Truth). They are couched within a context of contradiction, ambiguity, and ignorance. So, the meaning of the 5-20% is lost in translation, unless one reads between the lines. (continued below)
(continued from above) I might choose to tell you through private message, if I thought you cared, or were ready. If you cared or were ready, you would probably have found them by now, since they are readily available to the general public. They are hiding in plain view so-to-speak. I donât want the issue to become, well, his words are over here in this library, or over there in that bookstore (ie. Amazon, BarnesNobles ect). The words are ultimately written on your heart. So if you read the NT honestly, and read between the lines, you could get the message if you wanted to believe it (the message). But if you didnât want to believe it, you would not be able to read the NT honestly. This is the problem Christians are having. They donât really want to believe Jesus, and have made up something else (false) that substitutes for belief in Jesus. Jesusâ words (words that authentically represent the teaching legacy of the historical Jesus) are available at Amazon and BarnesNoble (etc.) because someone was willing to listen from âwithinâ to the words that are written on the âheartâ of anyone with a âmindâ. Only those who are willing to listen âwithinâ will be able to identify those words as the words of "Jesus". Rather, only those âwith ears to hereâ will be able to tell that they come from the same Spirit of Truth that Jesus allowed to speak through his persona, once he had removed obstacles to communication (ie. a false sense of âselfâ). You would think that the first in line to pick up a copy of these words would be Christians. Quite the opposite. They are the last in line, and do their best to discredit them, if they arenât able to otherwise ignore them. No. They are consistent, and consistently magnanimous. They bless, always, and never curse. They built up. They donât tear down. They forgive. They donât condemn. They include. They donât exclude. They promise a glorious destiny. They donât make threats. They tell it like it is, whether you like it or not. They donât candy-coat what a world of time/mass really represents. And rightly so. But I think youâll find that they are enough unlike the words given in the NT that the majority of NT believers reject them. Because they are suppressed, many NT believers are not even aware of them. They are generally not talked about in Christian circles. And when they invade their circles, the usual response is some of them will take a stand against them, and most of them will ignore them. They will dismiss them for a variety of erroneous rationale, including the rationale that says that revelation stops with NT scribblings, that the NT represents everything we need to know about Jesus, and that the NT is entirely authentic, as if it represents the authentic teaching legacy of Jesus. This attitude is basically fraudulent, but suits the ignorant just fine. Because the response is so predictably contradictory, itâs clear to me that Christianity represents an agenda that is decidedly anti-Christ. And so, I think of it as Christi-anti. To the extent that you support their agenda, I suggest you are in league with them (ie. with Jem etc.). Iâve said it before and Iâll say it again. You, the atheist, are perhaps a little closer to the truth because you insist that the god of this world does not exist. And that is also what Jesus insisted. And at least you are not actively engaged in making the true Go(o)d appear insane, except when you insist that NT representations are authentically representative of Go(o)d and/or his messenger(s). Itâs whenever you join with Christians to sell us the NT as representative, that you support a fraud, and help them make Go(o)d appear insane. You also join them when you support a world of time/mass as real. To them, it is real because it is alledgedly granted by Go(o)d. To you it is real just because you take it for granted (ie. it's always been here etc). What you don't realize is that its alledged "reality" symbolizes another (false) god, and one not a little bit insane. It, and it's "creation" are stark raving mad. Well, unreality (time/mass) is certainly in need of re-interpretation, itself being a re-interpretation (re-creation) of reality (Christ,Go(o)d, Creation). Let me put it this way, Jesus heard about "Christ" (or some other word that represents the same idea) long before there was an NT, and in spite of OT mythology which misrepresents Go(o)d (Christ) as much as the NT does. Jesus believed in Christ in spite of his Jewish background/culture. And by seeing Christ in everyone (âlove thy neighbor as thy selfâ), Jesus came to know himself as Christâ¦long before the words of Christ were available at Amazon or Barnes n Noble. And this is largely because Jesus had âears to hearâ what was written on his heart. And what was written on Jesus heart was supported moreso by âEASTERNâ scriptures than anything Hebrew (âwesternâ) scriptures offered. NT believers forget that three âwise menâ came from âthe eastâ to welcome a kindred spirit into the world. And when Jesus got older, he went east to return the favor, to finish his educationâ¦and to add to the education of the east. Today, an NT zealot will shut his ears if anything sounds like it comes from the east. Not wise at all. There are as many as 17 years missing from the NT biography of Jesus. Thatâs plenty of time to go east, finish his education, and return in time to save âthe lost sheep of the house of Israelâ. And lost they were indeed! I believe I donât need to tell you where to find the words of Christ/Jesus in a world of time/mass. If you wanted them, they would find you, or you would find themâ¦somehow someway (just as Jesus found them). Neither is any one specific book necessarily the form everyone needs to learn/believe the truth. There are many forms of the same messageâ¦lotsâ of bits and pieces here and there (some dating back thousands of years). But there is now a contemporary, complete and comprehensive repository of words for advanced seekers/students representing a direct transmission of Jesusâ whole philosophy/world-viewâ¦view of reality. There are cottage industries growing up around such words. And there are other transmissions, for example, from the Spirit of Truth, or from successful students of Jesus (ie. Thomas, Thaddeus/Jude) who defy the laws of time/mass to bring messages. These kinds of revelations are becoming more and more commonplace in past decades, representing a veritable feast for truth seekers. Ironically, so many pseudo-truth-seekers would rather starve on OT/NT crumbs than come to a feast that tastes at all like âthe eastâ. But the honest will come, yes, THE HONEST WILL COME TO THE FEAST. I am not promoting a single book. I do promote "one way". I am promoting reason, honesty, and feasting through an open mind on what is already deposited in the general mind we sometimes call the âcollectiveâ (mind) for itâs salvation from its fantastic imagination (of all that is untrue). But if a single book would help, yes, there is a book that fully and authentically represents Jesusâ position, whose author is reported to be the contemporary version (omnipresent, omniscient, spirit) of the historical Jesus. In other words, it comes from that state of Being/mind that subsumed Jesus and transformed him into its Self. This Self has authored more than one book, not every one under the pseudonym (in the name of) âJesusâ. One may come from Holy Spirit/ Self. Another may come from âthe right side of our mindâ. Or, another might be generated out of a series of appearances (and disappearances) of successful, time/mass defying âstudentsâ (disciples, apostles) of Jesus and/or of his latest philosophical installation (who have become this same Being/Self). Ultimately, they all come from Self, the Savior of the Self from our non-self (ie. elves, humans, trolls, âthe worldâ). Christ!
..that's just nuts. It was a simple question, you really didn't need to write a novel to not answer it. 3 or 4 lines of bullshit would have been every bit as effective dude. After glancing through that lot, I can see why they invented the word psychotic .
On reflection that was somewhat uncalled for. You are generally respectful in your replies and I was not so in making that response. I apologize Iam . Nevertheless, all you are saying against the fact that Jesus Christ of the New Testament is not all peace and light, but on the contrary, is threatening and violent, is that... 1. the NT is wrong, Jesus didn't say anything that's in it 2. I'm like millions of Christians thinking they are the words of Christ 3. You know that Christ never said anything that is in the Bible . 4. You won't say how you know . Can you see the screaming problem with your position at all ? regards stu!
Apology accepted. 1. The NT is wrong. Jesus said perhaps 5%-20% of what's said he said. And that % is couched in a context of contradiction, ambiguity and ignorance. 2. I'm surprised that you, of all, would fall for a fraud that millions of minds are falling for. (Doesn't matter what they call themselves). They are not all his words. Doesn't mean that none of them are his words. More important than the right words is the right interpretation of his words. He spoke largely in parables. 3. I grant that Jesus' words are relayed 5% - 20% of the time, but without any understanding of them. And so, they are lost in translation, and one generation passes meaningless on to the next generation, who accepts the meaningless as if they understood. 4. I offered some basis is contemporary resource material that is available to the general public. I offered some basis in ancient resource material (that Jesus would have been aware of), that is available to the general public. I've said that revelation is ongoing as folks open their minds enough to listen to the truth speak...from that part of their mind that still knows what the truth is. I said that the only way anyone would know that any of these resources were from the Truth (ie. Jesus, Spirit of Truth etc) is if they opened their mind to what is already deep within them in the first place. At best, a beginner will have a sense of certainty enough to compel him to practice training his mind to open. And then perception gradually yields to the truth. Christ!
Indeed. Any book full of farfetched, highly implausible folk tales and theo-fiction, are normally full of contradiction and ambiguity. The Bible is no exception. Still according to you, 80% of all the words attributed to Jesus in the NT Bible are not what he said, but up to 20% might be (you don't know ?), but even they are altogether unreliable. ( But you don't know ! ). You're saying they are not all his words, but you say that could mean some of them are his words "couched in a context of contradiction, ambiguity and ignorance". It's clear Iam, you have a lot in common with that. In a word, Parables. So the word war in a parable, can be rather mindlessly interpreted to say peace. The words being a fraud , there's every chance and in all likelihood, the character itself is a fraud. You would fall for a fraud that millions of minds are falling for? Oh, isn't that what you're trying to say I was doing. Millions of minds who fell for one fraud will come to understand what you say is not a fraud how exactly? By more words lost in translation from yourself, "couched in a context of contradiction". Just like Jesus's? .... Open your mind to another fraud to be interpreted Bible style as truth? Open your mind until your brains fall out? No thanks. No good anyway. Games up , the emperor has no clothes.
When spinners spin the truth, contradiction, ambiguity and ignorance are generally going to be the context within which the truth is imprisoned; under which the truth is buried. You seem to be saying that there is no truth which is either imprisoned or buried. I'm saying that your conclusion is inconsistent with the nature of spin and the frequency it is employed by humans with agendas.
There is truth, though what you are spinning has been seen many times before. Truth is, it's just the same old religious based lie, fraud and deceit . With all your contradiction, ambiguity and ignorance , are you really expecting to make that lie sound like truth? You can't even directly answer a straightforward question without going into a confused frenzy of hyperbole.
What are you saying is the truth? What do you say I am spinning? What is just the same old religious based lie, fraud and deciet? Kindly, give an example of contradiction. Kindly, give an example of ambiguity. Kindly, given an example of ignorance. You seem to be saying it's your truth versus my lie. What is my lie. And what is your truth? What was the question? Please point out my answer so that we can see what you consider to be a "frenzy of hyperbole". I have answered all questions you have asked. Some I have even gone the extra mile. To you, the extra mile is a frenzy of hyperbole. How do you figure?
Expecting me to justify your own statement is one way to avoid the truth and the questions I asked you. Deceit. An elaborate poetic image in the form of your own personal religion. What you are doing. You can start to recognize that reality , or construct more deceit as you would normally do , for instance, by pretending yet again you or your ideas are not subject to the same reality as everyone is. It was yourself who stated the words in the Bible were couched in all three. I agree. Your words not mine, and your religious posts demonstrate all three, as they do indeed, manifest themselves in the Bible. After successfully recognizing all three in the Bible , I suggest you be a little more objective about your own statements, to see how they too compare so well with all three. You might start with reality. Then let me disabuse you yet again of that misunderstanding. I have been saying all along, it is the supposed truth according to millions of Christians . You are the one who is spinning a story about how the Bible is spinning a story. I am pointing out nothing more than Christ of the Bible is not all peace and light . Christ says some very nasty violent and threatening things in the Bible. It's there that your usual over exuberance into flowery speak took off. Spinning reality out into non-reality. Spinning the Bible into being not anything Christ said, which is akin to suggesting Adventures in Sherwood Forest is about nothing Robin Hood said. Spinning, just like Christ apologists do, reasons why your personal religious absurdity is more true than theirs. You even tried spinning me into league with Christians! How do I figure? I'd say going by what you usually post, you're spinning the same old duplicitous religious schizophrenia as usual. Wordy contradiction, ambiguity and ignorance doesn't hide mendacity. It's quite clear. You could be a little more honest and first, stop pretending you are not doing what you accuse the Bible and others of doing.