'Muse anyone ?' eeg bundle $199.99

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by Wallace, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. "Introducing Muse, our brain-sensing headband.
    It's a comfortable, sleek, four-sensor headband that allows you to control games,
    reduce stress, improve memory and concentration, and eventually to control devices
    directly with your mind." http://interaxon.ca/muse/

    just saw it on tv tonite, and discovered there's at least 2 others:
    http://www.neurosky.com/ and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeuroSky
    http://www.emotiv.com/ and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotiv also:

    others ?

    anyone using one of these devices ? feedback please
  2. Bob111


    how would you call a fat finger with this thing? :p
  3. EEG? I wonder how advance it is.

    If marketed to the masses, for the masses, it may be too simple. I can't imagine it being anything but annoying.

    But a better market with more money to burn exists. If it is measuring alpha beta and theta waves and is intentionally programmed, It may be an affordable alternative to bio feedback which costs a small fortune.

    I cant say that I am pro biofeedback. I would rent it though. Ironically, the system is probably going to attempt to tame the very curiosity that interests people in it. So add on up sales may be low.
  4. I've got the neurosky one, it was $100. The games that came with it were kind of simple and silly. I found the control seemed random, and practice didn't help much, which I'm sure is more my brain than the device. It measures 4 kinds of brain waves, and then "attention" and "relaxation" factors. Someone into this stuff pointed out they are calculated from two of the 4 kinds of brainwaves measured. Apparently relaxation is good, arousal is not what you are supposed to do. But, the more you concentrate to get the relaxation score up, the more aroused the brain is, so it bounces up and down, up and down. Actually the best scores I get are when I click through and read web pages, focus on one thing at a time. I don't think it is good for a controller, the fingers are much better for intentional control.

    If you blink or bite down, it will pick that up and it will affect the readings. It's kind of tight on my head, I think it was aimed more towards children.

    The best app I found was a python app, and it graphically displays the readings from the sensor. It's better than a game, gives direct feedback.

    On the positive side, I found it helpful for getting past thinking about bad experiences in an endless cycle. These are things like an unresolved argument from 6th grade, or a jerk driver in traffic, or "what is my life?" types of useless thoughts, anything that makes for the beginning of a drama movie. I suppose it's some kind of unresolved experience so the mind cannot get to the 'turn off' or 'done' switch. I've found, I focus on the brain-grapher for a few minutes, and they clear up. I don't know, maybe it's good for breaking the cycle, or succeeds in shifting attention to something else.

    I definitely benefited from learning the meditation with feedback for resolving endless cycle thinking. But after a month, I didn't use the device anymore. Maybe in the future I might be motivated to get another battery for it and use it some more, but beyond the meditation, I just can't think of any real use for it.
  5. zedDoubleNaught, some of what you wrote reminded me of a meditation I did where
    'problems' I didn't know I was holding onto drifted out of me and up like bubbles
    from the depths of the ocean, disappearing forever into the light above me

    "I definitely benefited from learning the meditation with feedback for resolving
    endless cycle thinking."
    is that benefit still continuing, did it send you 'clear' so you don't need to meditate
    any longer ?

    does the device, rather perhaps any of the apps give you any benefits when it
    comes to trading ? make you a better more profitable trader, or if you/one has a
    specific trading problem, would it help resolve the problem ?
  6. My own opinion - I think it's more like riding a bike, once you feel what is to ride the bike, then you are able to do it and it comes much more naturally. I think the brain-grapher just got me to focus and concentrate on that more efficiently; like instead of reading a high-level text book to learn how to do something, the brain-grapher was like a 10-minute youtube video that makes much more sense. It won't give it to you, but was a useful tool for me, because I'm just plain lazy and can't do traditional, self-disciplined meditation, so the graph / feedback to focus on was helpful.

    Now I don't use the brain-grapher or neurosky anymore, instead I catch myself when I'm thinking something in a cycle, and consciously focus on ending the cycle. Probably the same as your bubble imagery, for me I try to focus on the weather if it's nice, or how to code something, or the error term in a distribution, and I'm faster or more successful at the shift than before.

    I didn't find it helpful for trading. In trading there are lines going up and down, then the brain-grapher was more lines going up and down, and it gets confusing whether to stay sharp and focused or try to boost the 'meditative relaxation' bar. Instead it was better to use it after trading, or for a 15-minute break to step away if things weren't going well. I don't think there was any effect on trading performance or results.
  7. sounds like you accomplished a lot zedDoubleNaught, and in a very short period of time
    info I have is it takes 20 minutes of 'sitting' for the brain chemistry to change so that
    the meditative state can be entered. regular practioners might do it more quickly and
    like you say be able to use 'it' more efficienty whenever they have the need

    not speaking for you, but if a meditative state's objective is Samâdhi - see:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samadhi the Neurosky sounds like it works. one school
    of zen tries to shortcut obtaining 'enlightenment' - see the 'Ten Bulls':

    do you think of what you obtained with the Neurosky in terms of 'enlightenment' ?

    what you say about trading made me think of the Mark Douglas 'Trading in the Zone'
    book and whether in those terms the Neurosky might be helpful
    my concept of the meditative state isn't just relaxed, calm, but is also super aware-
    ness and concentration/focus without effort

    it definitely sounds like you had a great success with the the Neurosky by making a
    very short transition - and a permanent one at that to a desired altered beneficial
    mental state that you often use and which is very practical, but also that you have
    learned the how-to or invented the techniques to deal with the 'cycle thinking'

    do you think that if someone were having 'cycle thinking' problems in terms of their
    trading, they could learn to use the Neurosky and apply what they learn as you did to
    eliminate their 'cycle thinking' trading problems ?
    for example say they had a fear of 'pulling the trigger'
  8. Thanks, but don't get me wrong, I'm no meditation expert or have perfect mental discipline.
    Sorry, but I don't know much about the spirituality or trading side, so I won't comment on that. I have a simple trial-and-error approach: I try something, if I like it, good, I don't think about how or why much; if not, I took that risk into account before making a purchase, and so accept the loss. Actually, I kind of wish now I hadn't bought it because I don't use it anymore.

    I studied Psychology, and it was fun and novel to see eeg equipment available to the public for just $100. For research studies, they always said the equipment cost $30 k or $50 k. It was fun to see the brain waves displayed on a chart (but -- no way for me to verify if they are real, or random noise). It was fun to have some sort of feedback of concentration, instead of trying to guess if I had undistracted concentration or not (but again, no way to verify if it's real or not).

    But, I think this technology still has a long way to go. I would not use it for controlling apps or interacting with the computer, the mouse and keyboard are way more efficient.
  9. zedDoubleNaught, if you want to sell your Neurosky, pm me with your contact info
  10. yes zedDoubleNaught, these headsets and variations have broken the laboratory
    equipment high prices barrier thanks to current technology, manufacturing etc, and
    why not
    the difference between the equipment comes down to 'will it do what I want it to do'
    such hardware is definitely appealing because they're so cheap, are home-useable
    able to be self administered, and from what you've reported, work, 'real or random
    noise' aside
    'MindReflector® C-1 Neurofeedback Training Application' using the Neurosky has a
    testing report on its software: 'MindReflector iSNR 2012 Data and Documentation':

    personally I'm not interested in playing games or moving/controlling objects, but
    generating and controlling mental states, and if possible without going the spiritual
    route or having to pay a therapist's fees, and from what you say, you got a result
    #10     Jan 21, 2013