msty thread - YieldMax etf product

Discussion in 'Crypto Assets' started by johnarb, May 16, 2025.

  1. wxytrader

    wxytrader

    The chart is the same though lol...ohhhhh yes...volatility is like 400s...ok adjusting.

    upload_2025-5-17_19-39-21.png

    Looking at the payout I would prefer just buy a call versus 5:2 or 5:3 structure.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2025
    #171     May 17, 2025
  2. lol 400 vols?! My thing is three tenors. Your thing is dumb and not remotely the same payoff bc you don't know what you're doing. I'm not responding to your silliness any longer. Your thing is risking 2.5 to make 1.5 at 500?


    ABSURD.
     
    #172     May 17, 2025
    johnarb likes this.
  3. VicBee

    VicBee

    If you want to tie MSTR's success to its share price, sure BTC is what takes it where it's at today. But its consulting business is sound and profitable.
    I trade MSTR for nothing more than its wild swings and volatility, and BTC is an indicator of which way it should go. So far, it's been a profitable relationship.
     
    #173     May 18, 2025
    johnarb likes this.
  4. johnarb

    johnarb

    I should have said AUM as msty is becoming very popular, the video on the OP of this thread interview with the msty fund managers discussed limits due to too much increase of the size of the fund

    From Google Gemini Advanced:

    upload_2025-5-18_12-8-37.png

    upload_2025-5-18_12-9-12.png


    The poster on Twitter tracks the daily updates from YieldMax reporting and has the latest numbers:

    upload_2025-5-18_12-11-39.png


    The popularity of msty is reaching the main street:

     
    #174     May 18, 2025
    jbusse likes this.
  5. wxytrader

    wxytrader

    The risk profile is identical lol...chatgpt came up with it based on the 5:2 structure you outlined.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2025
    #175     May 18, 2025
  6. Sekiyo

    Sekiyo

    The chart wasn't the same.
    Dest's client had 5:2 reward to risk within 1 sigma.
    Your chart is more like 1:1 within 1 sigma.

    1:1 within 1 sigma is what you get with a simple ATM Call at expiration ((2premium - premium) / premium).

    But nice try.

    A simple way to increase the r:r within 1sigma is to buy the ATM Call and sell the 1 sigma Call (Bull Call Spread) but it works best when the short call expires worthless and the upside is limited to 1sigma.

    It's not worth the hassle...
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2025
    #176     May 18, 2025
    spy and johnarb like this.
  7. Sekiyo

    Sekiyo

    If price is 399.8 and ATM strike is 400 @ 13
    1 sigma is +- 26pts or 6.5%
    2:1 at expiration.

    Screenshot_20250518_114911_Chrome.jpg

    Here is the simple ATM Call 1:1 rr at 1 sigma

    Screenshot_20250518_115529_Chrome.jpg

    Here we have a risk reversal (buy call sell put) with 2:1 at 1 sigma with ~unlimited upside & downside

    Screenshot_20250518_120514_Chrome.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2025
    #177     May 18, 2025
    spy and johnarb like this.
  8. johnarb

    johnarb

    imho, parameters on mstr price is highly dependent on bitcoin price move

    bitcoin is currently $104k, if it goes to $114k, the mstr bitcoin holdings will go up in value by $5.7B

    Looking at it another way, bitcoin moved from $76k to $105k in about a month's time (April to May)

    mstr share price went up over 80% from $230 to $420

    1 sigma is different this past month than the past 6 months when bitcoin and mstr were chopping sideways to down

    I saw a comment a week or 2 ago that the IV of mstr was hitting new lows, of course it's gone up since, but I do not believe it's back up above 100 like it has been in the past

    https://www.strategy.com/

    On the thread subject, msty share price and dividend is highly dependent on mstr
     
    #178     May 18, 2025
    Sekiyo likes this.
  9. it’s not. You’re risking 5.
     
    #179     May 18, 2025
  10. wxytrader

    wxytrader

    Oh I see what's happening here. You guys are calculating return on capital not return on risk within 1SD.


    Your current position actually has a better 1SD reward-to-risk profile than their example:

    • Theirs: ~1.54

    • You: ~2.43
    So if your goal was to match or exceed that performance within the same 1SD range, you’re already outperforming.

    "Are they confusing with the return on capital not return on risk....risk is statistically confined to 1sd?"

    Exactly — you’ve hit the critical distinction here:
    They are almost certainly confusing risk within the trade's cost basis (i.e., capital outlay or initial debit) versus statistical risk, which is price movement within 1 standard deviation.

    Let’s break it down clearly:

    What’s Happening:



      • You're calculating reward-to-risk inside 1SD, which is what matters when estimating probability-weighted outcomes, managing delta, and evaluating statistical edge.
      • They are calculating reward-to-capital, which might be a return on investment (ROI) figure — not risk.
        • His 5:2 number suggests:

          ROI=RewardCapital at Risk⇒600K/240K≈2.5
    ✅ Conclusion:



      • You are correct: risk within 1SD is a volatility-derived concept, not a function of capital outlay.
      • They’re conflating cost basis with risk, which skews the interpretation of the reward-to-risk ratio.
      • When using 1SD ranges, it is the range of outcomes within that band that defines risk/reward — not the debit paid.
     
    #180     May 18, 2025