MSTR Price thread

Discussion in 'Crypto Assets' started by wxytrader, Dec 5, 2024.

  1. S2007S

    S2007S

    No one saw mstr going red 12 hrs ago? Some even on the forums were hyping it up once again to 500 550 600 by Friday. The hype machine is in full swing. That was nothing but a selling opportunity. Mstr rallies need to be sold, not bought. Once bitcoin drops below 75k mstr will be sitting under 300! This stock is absolutely too risky and the masses will hopefully figure this out sooner than later.
     
    #11     Dec 5, 2024
  2. VicBee

    VicBee

    I like MSTR, it's all gamble tethered to BTC, and because BTC is traded 24/7, you can get a pretty good sense of where MSTR is going during trading hours. The swings can take a toll on the psych, but it's great to day trade.
     
    #12     Dec 5, 2024
  3. taowave

    taowave

    Theta dump?? WTF is a Theta dump??




     
    #13     Dec 6, 2024
  4. Theta dump as in the price of the option has dumped to the point that the price is now the same as if you had suffered theta decay for x amount of days/months.

    Example:

    You have calls worth $6 with 120 DTE
    Then 60 days go by with no price change and the calls are worth $3.25
    Or
    The stock price drops x amount today, and the calls are worth $3.25

    In the first scenario you have calls @ 3.25 with 90 DTE
    In the second scenario you have calls @ 3.25 with 120 DTE

    So you have just suffered theta dump meaning your calls are priced as if they have suffered 60 days of theta decay. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2024
    #14     Dec 6, 2024
  5. taowave

    taowave

    Those higher up on the food chain may refer to it as a "vega dump"... :)



     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2024
    #15     Dec 6, 2024
    Global OptionsTrades likes this.
  6.  
    #16     Dec 6, 2024
  7. These are the numbers I was able to come up with for MSTR using raw data. I think these numbers were before the drop in price recently...

    upload_2024-12-7_2-9-1.png


    So it basically matches on MSTR tracker...

    upload_2024-12-7_1-53-20.png


    If all of their debt is converted it is only going to add an additional 6.3 millions shares of dilution?

    If they had to repay their outstanding debt currently, they would need to liquidate 42612 bitcoin. If bitcoin drops to their break even they would need to liquidate 85000 bitcoin.

    Essentially they have made 4x in bitcoin what they have borrowed.

    Where is all the leverage then????

    If you divide market cap by outstanding shares you get a share price of $448
    If you divide bitcoin worth by outstanding shares you get a share price of $195

    This makes sense if they are making 4x their debt in profits since debt and profits are really the only metrics here. So I guess we can extrapolate from this that if bitcoin dropped to 50k their share price should be 50k*402100=20B/205M=$98 per share. However they would have to pay out their convertible debt by liquidating bitcoin so it would actually be 402100-85000=317100*50k=15.8B/205M= $77 per share.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2024
    #17     Dec 7, 2024
  8. johnarb

    johnarb

    No

    It's easier to let you stay clueless, but see if you can figure it out

    • convertible debt matures different years
    • debt holders will only get their money back at maturity
    • or make a shit load of profits if converting to shares at convert prices, i.e. call options on the upside above convert price targets
    • most likely 100% hedged at current mstr share price, iow, debt holders shorted mstr shares and are already delta-neutral
    study mstr ATM share offering, they sold $8-10B worth of shares past few weeks,

    mstr probably sold $1-2B last week, we'll get another mstr bitcoin purchase announcement on Monday

    ATM is permanent capital. no debt or liabilities to mstr

    I really need to stay away from ET so I am not baited to your troll engagement farming :D


    upload_2024-12-8_0-56-9.png
     
    #18     Dec 7, 2024
    newwurldmn, taowave and NoahA like this.
  9. Come on J..of course they're all at different times...this is an exercise in rough math.

    There are also different clauses or caveats where MSTR can buy back the convertibles if price moves a certain amount in a certain time, whatever etc etc. The point is eventually they have to cover these debts and to cover these debts are going to have to sell Bitcoin IF Bitcoin does not continue to out perform the convertible strike prices. Either that or they'll have do share offerings to generate the capital to pay off the debts.

    Also yes debt holders can short MSTR but they're guaranteed their principle plus interest so what's the downside risk?

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/convertible-bond-arbitrage.asp

    You aren't a reliable source because you have too much skin in the game right now. :)

     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2024
    #19     Dec 7, 2024
  10. johnarb

    johnarb

    forget me as a source, wtf is wrong with you, are such a fucking idiot, dyor ATM share offering and convertible debt

    one simple question, you think the buyers of the convertible debt will wait until maturity and get paid the amount at par value and throw away the profits m2m of those shares at convert prices?
     
    #20     Dec 7, 2024