Mr. Williams responds

I doubt that Barry Bonds claims to be able to make a baseball player out of you. Larry Williams claims to be able to make a trader out of you. Following simple trading rules that do not require special eye-hand coordination is not quite the same as hitting a baseball coming at you at close to 100 miles per hour. In addition, if you want to hit like Barry Bonds, you will probably need to take performance enhancing drugs as he has for the last 5 years. There is a book coming out later this month to this effect:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/15...104-8761015-3483935?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Volente, if you are going to take me to task, then please try to keep your analogies consistent.

 

Wow. In his defense, Cody only took 6 of Larry's seminars.

 

I don't know the man and I never met him, but I almost feel compelled to say this is vintage Larry. His misuse of analogy is startling. Barry Bonds plays baseball. I don't think he generates most of his income teaching others to play baseball. Bill Gates runs Microsoft. I don't think he generates most of his income teaching other how to start up software companies. Larry, can you see how your misuse (or is it abuse?) of analogy comes across as disingenuous?

P.S. Thanks for the post, late apex. That was fine reading. As for the alleged negative bias of the article, I guess the facts kept getting in the way. I particularly like the part where they pay $4,500 for the seminar and receive almost $20 in profit sharing. You can't buy that kind of publicity.

 

I enjoyed reading the St Croix stuff and Balckman's follow on.

I enjoy, imensely, attending the stands that various promoter's make for their packages in Tucson as they come and go.

It's always a pleasure to take notes and see what is on the table. I'm doing one-on-one meetings (2 or three hours each with the guys and gals in the IBD MeetUp of Tucson.

I am failing to keep up with their emails.

Thunderdog calculated their annual ROI based on some comments in the 1% thread. The group is meeting Thunderdog's projections so far and its fun to se that he got the calculations down pat.

we are doing something different than Williams does. We are doing transference from a source to the members of the group. We meet tomorrow and I'll be handing out some more stuff (103 pages typed) that reinforces what has come on the table so far.

Transference of trading techniques and methods is an interesting topic. I am also handing out the C language software for trading the stuff mechanically. Our resident doubting Thomas finally appeared at the last meeting. He said my examples weren't to his liking and so i suggested he might want to try to do it mechanically instead of trying to catch up on five months of meetings on transference. He says that's okay with him. He is a custom software programmer for individuals who hire him in support of their trading efforts. He personally has blown up 11 times. At the least he will now have my software and since I give it away he can do the same.

I am glad to use thunderdogs projections for the group; it is a good test of what is possible to transfer and have the standard set by thunderdog.

A buddy and I talked about the edge stuff of Steve46 and I posted the mechanical edge trading results of my buddy on the russel 2000 in a post to Steve46's thread. It got deleted promptly by an unknown deleter. This mechanical edge type trade is better than Thunderdog's calculation for my group by a long shot. That is primarily because it is the Russel 200 instead of stocks. By buddy had his son program it for use based uponmy buddy's approach (he is a day older than I so he is just as senile as I am reported to be).

It's too bad that people believe that they can't learn from others and make the money that has been demonstrated by the performer. I think it is possible for MBA's so see the potential to make money is there by measuring market behavior. It is a hell of a jump though to believe what they see as others post their results and methods of extracting that potential. I was glad to see that Thunderdog could use the potential that he observed and use it to calculate what our group should achieve as the year goes by. So far we are meeting his expectations as shown by the calculations.

In Tucson, we are going to use the software as an answer sheet of our manual processes which are running way ahead of the software performance by some strange chance.

I believe performance is a result of acquiring knowledge, skills and experience by a process of transference. transference is best achieved by the use of many many kinds of drills. I had to separate the drills out of the report because it would have doubled the pages. I am just funnelling them out as 5 to 10 page descriptions with logging sheets.

I like William's idea of sharing profits. For mentoring, I use the standard of writing checks to those I mentor if they lose capital. It makes them try very hard to not have me write an embarassing check. I do choose whom I mentor to preclude personal risk on my part. Being senile makes it less challenging, though.

 

I dont know why I am responding to this other than to share my experiences with LW.

LW of all the "gurus" and authors has helped my trading perhaps the most.

The irony is I dont use any of his stuff. Only concepts.

Because the market is, and always will be the best teacher. In the end, nothing can replace Price, Volume, Time.

The real trick is finding a technique suited to your digestion that makes money.

And that is the genuis of LW and the hawkers. Absolution of responsibility which you can pay to acquire.

As a disclaimer I own several of his books, for a long time I kept current with his newsletter, seminars, yada yada.

Since I attended the very first Million $ challenge and there have been several references to that, I will comment on that.

If I recall correctly I paid 5k. There were 65 attendees. 2 asked for a refund.

The seminar was 4 days. Sun-Wed. He used his "money management" technique if you want to call it that and traded 20 lot of Big SP 500 futures and 70? cars in 30 yr bonds.

There is a reason he always holds M$ challenge in late Oct. That and Wil-spread on 30m basis were his underlying conditions.

In any case at end of seminar (Wed) he was up I think 273k. I cant remember but can dig through my archives if anyone is interested. He is fairly stringent about following his rules and his hold/stop/exit was for Thur/Fri.

So he gave the option, take the money and run or hold and take your chance with possible higher/lower refund. You voted and filled out slip of paper stating what you wanted to do.

Larry refunded 50% the seminar cost for the proceeds. So for me it was $2500 seminar. He has changed this to 20% max.

IMO, LW is for real. But he has also more than a little of PT Barnum in him. There are many tales I can tell and if there is any interest I will relay some more.

For example, regarding his 1987 Robbins Cup record. Much debate about that. Tales for another time.

But what is interesting is, so far as I know his daughter Michelle is not only a past winner but the greatest % gainer since her father.

She did this while she was filming her first year on Dawson Creek? show. All she did was call her broker and told him to follow her dad's bond hotline, and employing his money management "technique"

Many others subscribed to very same hotline and made less or nothing.

Trading is trading but there is no one who is going to load up the Brinks truck for you, give you the key, and take the heat as you drive off into the sunset.

 

So why are you judging him ?

 

If I was a struggling ES trader then perhaps I would take the course.

 

NO REPRESENTATION IS BEING MADE THAT ANY ACCOUNT WILL, OR IS LIKELY TO ACHIEVE PROFITS OR LOSSES SIMILAR TO THOSE DISCUSSED WITHIN THIS SITE, SUPPORT AND TEXTS. OUR COURSE(S), PRODUCTS AND SERVICES SHOULD BE USED AS LEARNING AIDS ONLY AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO INVEST REAL MONEY. IF YOU DECIDE TO INVEST REAL MONEY, ALL TRADING DECISIONS SHOULD BE YOUR OWN. HYPOTHETICAL OR SIMULATED PERFORMANCE RESULTS HAVE CERTAIN LIMITATIONS. UNLIKE AN ACTUAL PERFORMANCE RECORD, SIMULATED RESULTS DO NOT REPRESENT ACTUAL TRADING. ALSO, SINCE THE TRADES HAVE NOT BEEN EXECUTED, THE RESULTS MAY HAVE UNDER-OR-OVER COMPENSATED FOR THE IMPACT, IF ANY, OF CERTAIN MARKET FACTORS, SUCH AS LACK OF LIQUIDITY. SIMULATED TRADING PROGRAMS IN GENERAL ARE ALSO SUBJECT TO THE FACT THAT THEY ARE DESIGNED WITH THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT. NO REPRESENTATION IS BEING MADE THAT ANY ACCOUNT WILL OR IS LIKELY TO ACHIEVE PROFIT OR LOSSES SIMILAR TO THOSE SHOWN.



according to the disclaimer on his website, he does not say he can make a trader out of you. So now you are saying hand eye cordination is not important in trading ?

 

I have started it in the journal section. The above mentioned title was the working title, I shortened it to: The Augur...

 

I love the Grob. I don't think it's possible for MBAs to learn jackshit about the markets but yeah this one may have at least gotten the numbers right. I'll take an RPI graduate any day of the week.