Moving to singapore or dubai for trading

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by rajaalifx, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. Australia is expensive, according to a friend who just came back. Although that may not last too long with the way the commodity and AUD markets are heading.

    Dubai is definitely not a 1st world country. Singapore is pretty close, economically it definitely is, but be careful on freedom of expression and other political rights we have in the west. For example you would probably get arrested and jailed, or bankrupted under their draconian libel laws, if you accused the government of corruption, even if you presented ironclad proof you were correct. Check out the case of Alan Shadrake, jailed for 6 weeks for critiquing the Singapore death penalty system, in a book published outside Singapore.

    Personally I would have qualms about supporting repressive regimes like this - it is bad enough having to pay tax to support warmongering authoritarians back home.
     
    #51     Jun 21, 2013
  2. Your statement about Shadrake is factually incorrect.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadrake_v._Attorney-General

    Singapore is no bastion of freedom of expression, but it has a system that works and the government is democratically elected, so one can surmise the majority consider other aspects of life to be more important than freedom of expression.

    I have a rule that as long as I am a guest in another country, I will not criticise that country, its people, etc. Sometimes old fashioned manners don't hurt.
     
    #52     Jun 21, 2013
  3. dealmaker

    dealmaker

    I was referring to Singapore and Dubai as first World countries in terms of availability of services however yesterday after seeing the super thick smog in Singapore from the Indonesian forest fires I am not sure I want to go there to trade.
     
    #53     Jun 21, 2013
  4. moonmist

    moonmist

    This air pollution problem has plagued Singapore and Malaysia for decades already. IMHO, most visitors from Mainland China would be impressed by the air quality and clear sky of US as well.
     
    #54     Jun 21, 2013
  5. Sadly you are right about the haze problem. Sometime in the early 2000s I was in Kuala Lumpur on business. Finished a meeting mid-afternoon, returned to my hotel to get changed intending to head out for some shopping. When I was ready to leave, I drew back the curtains and there was this thick, smoky fog outside. I could not see buildings 50 metres away. Thinking there must be a big fire near the hotel, I nipped down and asked the Front Desk what was going on. They were quite matter of fact, this was the haze, if the wind blew the wrong way it would blanket the city.

    A few hours later the wind shifted and it cleared. Singapore is a lot closer to the problem than Kuala Lumpur, but at its worst even Southern Thailand is affected.
     
    #55     Jun 22, 2013
  6. toolazy

    toolazy

    #56     Jun 22, 2013
  7. I'm not a guest in Singapore, so your comment about that, and about manners is irrelevant. Morality is more important than manners anyway - I would definitely criticise a host if they did something I considered clearly immoral, like kidnap and then incarcerate an old man for simply criticising a system he viewed as flawed.

    Whether Singapore's system works or not depends on what your desired goals are. I consider that infringing people's liberties is immoral, and that murdering innocent people is evil, so Singapore definitely does not work under my standards.

    Note that I said Singapore was close to a first world country, but not fully qualifying due to lack of freedom of expression and other similar issues. You have not yet provided any evidence to refute that claim, you have merely made insinuations against my manners, and claimed that democratic elections (held under conditions where factually correct corruption allegations lead to personal bankruptcy due to politically-motivated libel laws) absolve the government of any criticism. Needless to say, I don't agree that winning an election absolves any moral responsibility for actions.

    People who are not bothered about those lack of freedoms can of course move there. But they are incorrect if they state it's a 1st world country. In future, if you disagree with me, provide evidence that my claims are false - don't make unsupported generalising remarks and doublespeak that evades the core issue. If you think Singapore's system is so great then deal with the facts and defend them robustly, rather than giving politician-style evasive statements.
     
    #57     Jun 22, 2013
  8. Oh and which part of my statement about him was incorrect? The fact is that he was jailed as a result of criticising in a book, the way the Singapore legal system administers the death penalty.
     
    #58     Jun 22, 2013
  9. Your inability to understand simple English makes a discussion with you a long, tedious affair. I will try to keep it short, and will thus not be responding to unrelated issues you raised.

    - If you are not currently a guest of a particular country, then justified criticism of that country is not ill-mannered.
    - ".....and the government is democratically elected, so one can surmise the majority consider other aspects of life to be more important than freedom of expression",
    does not mean,
    "........winning an election absolves any moral responsibility for actions".

    Your close to first world classification of Singapore is fine, the country is not perfect. Read my post without being defensive and you will see I agree that freedom of expression is limited, whilst acknowledging the fact that things work there, ie personal safety, cleanliness, good standard of education and healthcare, good infrastructure, etc. For many people this is enough to make it a desirable place to live. Jim Rogers lives there and last I heard Mark Mobius is also based there.

    The only point on which I disagreed with you, and provided evidence of that, was your statement:

    "Check out the case of Alan Shadrake, jailed for 6 weeks for critiquing the Singapore death penalty system, in a book published outside Singapore."

    Alan Shadrake was not jailed for critiquing the death penalty system, he was jailed for contempt of court. The link provides the details, read it. There is a difference between criticising the laws of a country and impugning its judiciary. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have for years criticised Singapore for its use of the death penalty, nobody has been jailed for that.

    The legal system in Singapore is based on the English legal system, not the American. Under that system, a lot of the criticism of the Supreme Court ruling on the Florida vote recount would probably constitute contempt of court. The fact that Shadrake may not have been jailed under the American legal system does not mean he was wrongfully imprisoned.

    It is the height of arrogance to presume that what is desirable to Americans must be adopted by other democratic countries. If you look at the WEF rankings of perceived independence of the judiciary, you will see that Singapore ranks #20 and U.S. #38.
    http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GlobalCompetitivenessReport_2012-13.pdf

    Please try to be more logical and objective, and less emotional. The OP is looking for feedback on Singapore and Dubai. I'm sure all accurate views are welcome, warts and all. Just leave the willful ignorance and tabloid innuendo out of it.
     
    #59     Jun 23, 2013
  10. I wouldn't take Cutten too seriously. He's one of those hypocritical Americans that like to sit up on their high horse and throw stones at other societies while people of his ilk try to take away the sacred right to vote of other Americans with voter suppresion tactics while at the same time lambasting against the gummint taking away their guns
     
    #60     Jun 23, 2013