Most people don't know how to use indicators and assume they're worthless. I don't really buy the publicly available vs. magic holy grail private indicators theory. Indicators can only be so good. And they can only get so much better than the public ones. So if you can't cut it with the public ones I doubt searching for the holy grail indicators will do much justice. Regarding pretorian's style.. I'm sure he's a great trader, but I cannot learn anything from him because he trades from the gut. And I don't have his gut. I have my own gut and I do not trust it. It's surprising to me how many traders on this board subscribe to the gut style. I'd expect more emphasis on objective methods here. But anyway neo asked a question. A good question. And all he got was 1) indicators suck, i use my gut 2) publicly available indicators suck, i use my own and of course i won't disclose them to you.