My time is not up when some moron like you says. I'm moving on regarding wealth creation, all the have nots streaming across the border are not that anti white actually, most of them are moving on regarding wealth creation too. I'm learning some Spanish nowadays, that way I have that many more friends. A Peruvian guy with an engineering degree in Industrial Engineering is going to be putting new floors in mi casa next week, I could not find a better, more qualified, better motivated, intelligent person to do that work anywhere so I am greatly benefitted by partnering with him. A black person could have gotten the same degree, developed the same character, started the same manufacturing and service businees but noooooooo... first we have to stop and let morally and intellectually bankrupt people like Hillary get done having their way with the resent and the lawsuits and all. Way to go Hillary...... boring idiot wants us to talk personally with her about our problems.... I don't think so lady.
The only way you can prove any group is "intrinsically" violent due to one factor is to have a controlled experiment where all other factors are made equal. Obviously in this case that's impossible. You have too many variables such as ease of firearms purchase in the US, generally much higher murder rate in the US compared to the rest of the civilised world, poverty levels, drug use, organised crime influence, racism etc. However, we can do a 2nd best comparison by looking at other societies and seeing what the murder rates are there, this will at least give us some ideas as to what the most likely causes are. If race is the prime factor, we ought to see very high murder rates amongst blacks in all countries, relative to the murder rates amongst other ethnic groups. For example, if race were the main factor, then black citizens in Switzerland, Ireland or New Zealand would have a similar murder rate to black citizens in the USA. Whereas in fact US blacks as a group have a massively higher murder rate. This suggests that the main cause of the high murder rate are factors specific to the USA, rather than factors specific to race. Also if you look at countries like Columbia (mainly Hispanic) and Russia (mainly white/slavic), the very high murder rates there suggest that it's societal and cultural factors, rather than racial factors that determine high murder rates. Spain (hispanic) and Czech Republic (white/slavic) have far lower murder rates despite similar ethnic composition. Same with South Africa versus Lesotho or Namibia, for example. So, the conclusion best supported by the evidence is that features intrinsic to the structure of a society that are the main cause of high murder rates, rather than pure racial origin. This seems true not only for the US but also for other societies with unusually high violence compared to their economic/social peers. There's then the question of why do blacks in the US have a higher murder rate than other ethnic groups in the US. The way to answer this would be to look at factors which influence violent crime e.g. poverty, drug use, immigration, policing attitudes, cultural attitudes etc. For example, blacks have a much higher murder rate than asians. Given that both groups were primarily immigrants, you'd look at the background differences between the two to try to reach a conclusion. First, you have the obvious issue of slavery and institutionalised (i.e. legal, versus just societal) racism for much of US history. There were more legal barriers for blacks to advance out of poverty than asians or latinos, up until about 30-40 years ago, and cultural attitudes still persisted for a long time after that (and are still around to some extent). Second, you have the differences in culture between the various ethnic groups. In the US, cultural attitudes amongst some blacks are less in favour of education and hard work than values predominant amongst asians, and there is a much stronger minority subculture of violence & crime. This is in distinct contrast to for example blacks in places like the Bahamas, Barbados etc, where values are much more dominated by traditional conservative attitudes to crime, family & work. This is probably down to the legacy of slavery and then segregation/Jim Crow - cutting off legitimate avenues of enrichment and self-advancement will leave crime as one of the few options for getting rich or getting ahead. You see a similar problem in South Africa which had even more extreme segregation and institutionalised racism - the result was similarly high crime levels amongst the black population. Contrast to for example most of the former British or French Caribbean where violent crime is at much lower levels than the USA. So IMO the main cause of high violence amongst US blacks is poverty, the legacy of slavery/segregation, pro-crime/violence cultural attitudes amongst a fair minority of black males, drug use & dealing, ease of access to firearms, and the US tendency towards higher murder rates in general. If skin colour were a major contributor, then college educated married blacks in foreign 1st world countries with incomes of >$100,000 per year would also have much higher murder rates than their non-black US counterparts. Whereas US violent crime rates are in fact higher. Educated, well-off US non-blacks commit more murders per capita than educated, well-off non-US blacks. And of course, non-black uneducated Americans in the ghetto are much more likely to commit murder than black university professors in London. So I can't say I buy the argument that race is the main cause, or that blacks are "intrinsically" really violent. The real cause seems to be that US blacks happened - mostly due to the actions of white mainstream US society over 200+ years - to have been placed in a position where they were most heavily exposed to environmental factors that correlate strongly with high crime rates and violence. US blacks today probably commit so much crime because of their special harsh treatment for the majority of American history, rather than because of any intrinsic racial or genetic factors. If you enslave an entire race and turn a blind eye to lynchings, sexual slavery, unequal treatment in the legal system, then allow effective apartheid in half the country for another 120 years, this is obviously going to have a huge and long-lasting impact on the behaviour, circumstances, and cultural attitudes of those people. It should be no surprise that anti-social tendencies start to surface amongst a significant minority of that population when they are effectively oppressed and excluded from mainsteam society. It takes more than a couple of decades of (relative) progress to erase the damage done. For mainstream America, this is of course a rather uncomfortable conclusion, which is probably why it is not very popular, and why other specious theories are advanced despite a distinct lack of supporting evidence.
No one is debating whether violence amongst American blacks is high. That's a proven fact. The question is what are the causes. Are they racial (i.e. genetic) or socio-cultural (i.e. environmental). If the former, then blacks are intrinsically violent. If the latter, then blacks are not intrinsically violent. It's the same as the debate on the "bell curve" book. Are blacks inherently less intelligent, or is it just that the areas they are from are lacking in economic and educational resources, and that they get a bum deal in the education system? The evidence points against the former and in favour of the latter. For example, IQ scores amongst blacks have gone up over 10 points in the last 50 years. Unless black people in American have been doing a coordinated secret plan to breed for intelligence by only fucking really smart people, then clearly it is environmental factors that are responsible. If IQ can change that much in that period of time just due to better economics & educational opportunities, then it is clearly dominated by environment rather than genetically determined "instrinsic" ability. You need some hard facts to back up your "instrinsic" claim.
FYI: The homicide rate of American whites is lower than the murder rate in the U.K. This myth of America suffering murders because of lax gun laws is rubbish. It's demographics. Using your logic-why doesn't gun happy Switzerland have a high murder rate? Or Canada? American blacks are no worse than those in London and certainly a cut above those found in Port-au-Prince, Rio and Johannesburg. Good reading: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/poen/2002/00000023/00000006/00373264 http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_sndgs01.html
Pa(b)st Prime: I am amazed that you are considered a respectable poster here. Every time I think this place can't get any lower, I stumble across something like this, and realize I haven't yet hit the bottom. It's redeemed by the high intelligence shown in the trading forums, of course, but I suppose I'll have to spend more time down here to figure out who is good and who has the intelligence of an imbecile.
Why don't you make an argument/rebutal instead of mindless (yawn) cliche'. The topic of this thread is in place. Either stick to the subject or shut the fuck up.
I think Pabt's logic is sound I disagree on the details however. Personally I feel that the Mexicans of Southeast Los Angeles are much more dangerous than the blacks... Those Chulos often carry semi automatic weapons and although they can't shoot very accurately they tend to make up for it by spraying the community with ammunition. Quite often they kill innocent pedestrians in addition to their intended targets. Of course my comments relate to southeast los angeles only. In northern california we have a different situation in Oakland and Richmond. In both of those towns, both blacks and mexicans carry weapons and are actively looking for opportunities to use them...I don't know why, but those mexicans seems to shoot much more accurately than the blacks. Perhaps they do more target shooting and have a better training program in place for their young gang bangers. Anyway that is my take on the subject.
Or you could actually use your mind, and think logically: humans are closer to each other genetically than just about any other species. To quote: From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2975862.stm So, arguing that one socially defined group is inherently more violent than some other is to go against some pretty compelling scientific evidence. Which of course is what people who can only think superficially do all the time, either because they're incapable of stringing together any sort of logical inference, or because they're too lazy to do so. Which of these you fall under is a matter of indifference to me; it's enough that you advance such a stupid argument in the first place. As for whether I'll be continuing to engage you on this or any other subject, forget it. I've already cut way back on posting around here, given that there doesn't seem to be any culture of filtering out cranks like you around here. This means it takes a lot more time and effort than it should to find the few who are worth reading, so I've taken to reading a lot more, and commenting only when the level of idiocy exceeds my ever higher level of tolerance for stupidity and evil. You managed to exceed that level. I'm sure you'll continue to, but after this, I won't really give a flying fuck. You're too stupid, or too lazy, I don't know which, to be worth any more of my time.
Just because humans share a genetic basis doesn't negate their cultural conditioning. Mexicans and blacks from specific neighborhoods are culturally "trained" by the time they are 10 or 11 years old to get into gangs, beat each other up, rob liquor stores and do drive by shootings. They also like tacos, tatoos, and women with big booties who wear lots of lipstick....Just a cultural fact of life. Oh and I forgot about low riders........ So actually you seem to be out of touch with reality....Perhaps you should take a field trip to southeast los angeles and update your data? I agree by the way, on your decision to cut back on posting. If your world view is so constrained that you cannot carry on an intelligent conversation, then all you will be doing here is getting frustrated.......good luck.. Thanks