Most cost effective way to protect against black swan event?

Discussion in 'Options' started by short&naked, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. I don't think that's right. Given that the Trump reflation/aggressive Fed trade is done mostly through downside in various LIBOR products, the mkt is actually quite long LIBOR/OIS spread at the moment (this is also due to large longs in swapspreads).

    IMHO, LIBOR/OIS isn't going to be a good hedge at the moment. If anything, you can observe the opposite, as the some of the pain recently came from an unexpected tightening of various bases (quarter end was a total damp squib).

    In Europe you could argue that BOR/EONIA basis is too tight, but it does nothing but tighten further as there is too much excess liquidity.
     
    #31     Apr 16, 2017
  2. quant1

    quant1

    Easiest way is to trade a strategy uncorrelated to SPY. Stat arbs tend to trade for wild prices during high vol events (like a large market selloff ). You'd effectively be long vol trading such strategies. The key is to be efficient even when vol is not very high.
     
    #32     Apr 16, 2017
  3. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    Weren't you just a few months ago on the runaway inflation thesis that Trump was leading us to. You seemed to be quite confident in your steepener trades (they since got crushed). You were quite confident that banks stocks were going to keep ripping (they have pulled back a lot) even pointing out how you were not long enough in your regional banking ETF. You were telling me how Goldman was going to the moon. Marty, the reflation trade is gone. Yes, obviously this has affected LIBOR/OIS spreads but now you are telling me if this market were to crash, credit spreads are "NOT" going to blow out? I'm all ears Marty....enlighten me.
     
    #33     Apr 16, 2017
  4. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    And to further clarify Marty, the question was asked, what is the BEST most COST effective way to get this downside exposure. Why don't you also chime in then on what you feel that is. I'm genuinely interested. I stand by my argument that credit spreads are still the most cost effective way vs the alternative choices presented in this thread. I'm willing to change my mind. I'm still trying to grapple with your "massive inflation is coming to the US thread". I don't think ten year treasuries agree with you for now. Markets are always changing though...
     
    #34     Apr 16, 2017
  5. quant1

    quant1

    Credit spreads have negative vega. An increase in vol would hurt such a position.
     
    #35     Apr 16, 2017
  6. sle

    sle

    He means credit as in "credit derivatives", i.e. you are long protection.
     
    #36     Apr 16, 2017
  7. quant1

    quant1

    OTC credit derivatives (CDS and such)? I'm a bit confused.
     
    #37     Apr 16, 2017
  8. Trader13

    Trader13

    DOTM Put Backspread
     
    #38     Apr 16, 2017
  9. sle

    sle

    The equivalent exchange-traded products like Eurodollars over Fed Funds (an analogue of LIBOR/OIS) or TED spread (Two Year futures over Eurodollars, equivalent to short dated swap spreads).
     
    #39     Apr 16, 2017
  10. You'd have to remind me, Mav, where I suggested that massive inflation is coming to the US...

    As to credit spreads, obviously, LIBOR/OIS has a credit component, but at the moment basis dominated by other things. If you want downside protection, unfortunately I can't think of anything better than otm puts etc in Russell or, failing that, Spooz.
     
    #40     Apr 17, 2017