Let's play this game. Let's take Shaq out of the equation. Let's trade Kobe for Duncan from the beginning of the year. Which team has the better record right now with their respective lineups, Lakers or Spurs? Oh, ya, we have seen what Kobe does without Shaq. You want to give Kobe the MVP, when he isn't even the most important or best player on the team? Who could have imagines Kobe's scoring record? Maybe the same who imagined the Spurs record road wins. Weak, weak reasoning process you have going on there my boy.
That game would make sense only if Kobe and Duncan played the same positions. The Lakers are built around Shaq inside, and Kobe everywhere else, and teams with strong inside games are typically more able to win consistently than teams that depend on outside games. Again, there are many exceptions, but, on a team as thin as the Lakers were at the beginning of this season, and a team built for years around the league's greatest inside presence, the general rule was especially true - which makes Kobe's back to back performances over Houston and Utah last week, when Shaq was out and everyone knew how much they counted, all the more impressive. If the league had anyone else to compare with Shaq, or if the game worked a little differently, more favorably to outside threats, then Kobe would be the "center" of the team. I guess if they were playing baseball, he'd be more important, too. I have no idea how their golf games compare... If you traded Duncan for KG, would the Spurs or Wolves have much different records? Maybe... Hard to say. I like KG more, but the Spurs may need Duncan's solidity inside with Robinson so out of it. Lately, Kobe has been both the most important and the best player on the Lakers. With Shaq healthy, things would probably revert to normal: Shaq most dominant, Kobe the best, as Shaq himself has formulated it. Perhaps the subtlety of the distinction has escaped you. It's a team game, remember? - and the Lakers have led with a 1-2 punch.
Typically that has been the case, that a strong inside presence was required for championships. Of course, MJ blew that theory away, didn't he? Lately, Kobe has been important, and the best player on the Lakers in Shaq's down period. So what? Pippen was the best player on the Bulls when MJ left, right? That means Scottie was MVP the year after Jordan retired and the Bulls lost in the Eastern Conference finals to the Knicks? Shaq is biased, he wants Kobe to get an MVP award. So what? On that basis he deserves one? I wouldn't take his opinion as mattering that much. Shaq also calls himself the Big Aristotle, so what? Shaq is a jokester. You like KG more? Okay. Do the game of trade a player with KG and Kobe. KG's team, KG+Lakers supporting crew has a better record is my guess than T-Wolves supporting cast+Kobe....so KG is the MVP. I have no problem with that. I rated KG 1, Duncan 2, and Kobe 3 based on statistics. No problem with that order for MVP. Kobe is still 3rd best.
Sure did. You will NEVER get me to say something contra MJ as a player. We are 100% fully in agreement as to his terrificness. Any doubts I might have had were blown away the year he led the Bulls over the Magic Lakers, and they never returned. Shaq's the only player I can think of who with that overwhelming confidence, the sense that there was just no one who was even close to being able to contain him. The fact that MJ did it as a swingman makes his achievement even more imrpessive. I love Jerry West, but they should probably replace him on the logo with an MJ silhouette. Okay? Have I convinced you that I'm not just some hopeless Laker partisan? What was hilarious was that even up to a couple of years ago you used to hear commentators saying that teams needed either a) a great point guard or b) a great center to win championships. What league were they watching? Well, there you go again - trading a guard for a forward without any other adjustments or any recognition of how the rest of the team has been put together. I'm just not sure anymore that I want you as my GM. Wait a second - a few pages ago you were giving the MVP to Kobe. Make up your mind. I'll wait to the end of the year to make my totally objective decision.
Here is what I said: "I said, "No doubt, as of today, Kobe is the MVP." I also said that MVP is a popularity contest. Is there really any reason that the Mailman or Sir Charles deserved MVP in the seasons they won and got smoked by MJ in the finals? All anyone can really say is that "right now" Kobe is player of the month. You have to look at the entire year, and go on statistics over the entire year, not just one streak.....but many who vote on MVP are like you, they prefer highlights to substance. Those who want to say he has "potential" blah, blah, blah or discuss his greatness are speaking waaaay too soon in my opinion. Should we say Le Bron is better than Kobe, because those who saw both Kobe and Le Bron play in high school, rate Le Bron much higher than Kobe? Is the potential for greatness what allows us to call someone great? Time will tell. As you point out, it depends on the other players and the system. MJ and Shaq may be the only 2 since Magic, and Kareem when he was in his prime within the last 30 years that could truly take any team to the finals and win. I don't put Kobe in that league now, and I don't think he will achieve that level of greatness in the future. Is the the "best" 2 guard in the league? Depends on the system, doesn't it? Maybe Paul Pierce or Tracy or AI would be better in different systems, or with the Lakers than their current teams.
Fersure. Neither Kobe nor MJ were #1 draft choices. Kobe wasn't even in the top 5. Right now Kobe qualifies IMO as one of the all-time great talents, and one of the few dozen best players ever. He's got a little further to go to break into the Magic/Bird/MJ/Russel/Shaq level - and the odds are always against anyone doing that. As for LeBron, he's looked great to me on film, but a lot of High School guys look great. Has Jerry West spoken out on him? If West says he's totally for real, then I'll start to believe it, but, even then, like I said, the odds are always way against anyone, no matter how talented, turning out to be another MJ - and even if he doesn't happen to blow out a knee playing beach volleyball or something. Character matters, too. LeBron's background doesn't look as troubled as AI's was, but his character is at best a question mark right now. Turned out with AI, he's clearly got issues, but they seem to be part of what makes him burn so hot.
You are entitled to your opinion, even though you cannot support it reasonably. Apparently your concept of history is just the past 30 years. Oh well, Laker myopia is as bad as Bulls myopia used to be.
I know this is slightly off topic, but I had to question Shaq's heart the other night when he sat out against Yao for some phantom injury. I think Shaq's afraid at some level to play against him now after not doing that great in their first meeting.
I don't agree. I think Shaq is afraid of the pain in his foot, and the fear of the long term side effects of anti-inflamatory drugs and other pain killers. Shaq doesn't need to play another game to go down as one of the all time great centers. He just isn't driven the way MJ, Magic, or Bird was.
I will agree with this. But I still think Yao has proven to be a little tougher than when Shaq was making fun of him before the season started.