From: Gerald Levin (galevin@hotmail.com) Subject: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks Date: 2002-11-17 06:07:45 PST I just saw an infomercial on Trendfund.com and Michael Parness and his trading program. I just bought the book online, "Rule the Freakin Markets", and intend to read this first after it arrives shortly. I'm looking for opinions on his techniques, website, programs, etc. Seems too good to be true. Anybody here involved (currently or previously) that would like to share their opinion? Really appreciate it. Lost my arse in the market over the last couple years and not looking for additional losers, I can find those on my own. Really appreciate opinions on this. Sincerely Gerald Levin galevin@hotmail.com From: Jessie (jessie@attilatrading.com) Subject: Re: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks Date: 2002-11-17 16:21:04 PST Anything at all in trading that seems too good to be true unfortunately is. Believe me, I am an exchange member, I trade for a living, and not a single person I know who trades for a living uses a system that is sold to the public to do so. If any worked, believe me, the developers wouldn't be doing infomercials, they would be trading them. Infomercials are expensive enough that they would provide more than adequate capital to fund any good system, and make the developer rich. Also, it really isn't hard to figure out how to enter winning trades, almost any system will do that for you, even a simple moving crossover. The trick is getting out of the losers ALL the time before they get large, and not opening trades that "almost" meet your criteria. There is no substitute for a lot of study, a lot of discipline (100% of the time, not 99%), and a couple of years of one-lot trading. If you are starting with a $10,000 trading account and you are trading more than one-lots in anything, you are almost certainly too big, and you probably shouldn't be trading some things at all. The people I know who did those things are sucessful, the others are gone. One of the sobering things about working on the floor is that you realize how quickly people who overtrade, try and make money quickly, and are undisciplined blow out. Trading is just like anything else, if you work really hard and take it slow, you will probably do OK, if not, you won't. If you rely on a system, then when it blows up, you will too, because you won't have gained the understanding of the markets that comes with doing the hard work (for example, the wealthiest bond trader I know does all his charts (15 minute charts) by hand rather than computer, as it forces him to follow exactly what is happening. What always amazes me are the numbers of people who expect to learn to trade in a year or two, when they would expect it to take much longer to learn to be a good carpenter or electrician. Take it slow and study a lot, and you'll do OK without infomercials. Jessie From: Ivanovich (schmekelfutz@yahoo.com) Subject: Re: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks Date: 2002-11-18 12:12:38 PST I agree with what you have said. I have traded options for some time but it wasn't until I developed my own strategies that it became profitable. No fancy systems, no "greeks", and certainly not the hackneyed strategies propounded by everyone like covered calls, collars, etc. Also one's own strategies take into account individual risk and trading preferences. I have friends who have tried for years to come up with a "holy grail" canned commercial system, spending a lot of money to aquire them, and it never works. Can these experiences be generalized, in your opinion? That is, the only way to become a successful trader is to slowly try different things on one's own, probably over several years, until something is found with which one is comfortable and successful. It is a matter, then, of creativity,hard work ,patience, and some "learning" capital. Most people that get into this are neither very creative nor patient, and are therefore doomed from the start. Does this make sense? Thanks. From: Jessie (jessie@attilatrading.com) Subject: Re: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks Date: 2002-11-18 16:00:51 PST I think you are right on the money. Some people I know trade systems some trade discretionary, but the things all have in common is that they have traded small over time and learned what works for them. And of course, as you say, there is NO holy grail. Richard Dennis taught a successful, completely rote trading strategy to a group of would-be traders, some became wildly successful, others failed. They failed because they didn't know themselves well enough, and because they didn't respect risk enough. I could teach what I do to anyone in about 15 minutes (and I do use Greeks and a few other things). But most would do what I did for the first (many) years, and grind out good profits slowly then lose them much more quickly. I think that some aspects of trading can be taught, but I think that "mileage" is essential. Even if you do exactly what I (or anyone or any system) tell you to do, when you start to lose, you will second guess what you have learned, and start tinkering. If you have learned enough to successfully "tinker", you will do OK, but that only comes with lots of hard work and self awareness, otherwise, you will panic and do the wrong thing and in a few minutes, undo a month of trading. We have all done it (some of us, like me, did it a lot......). I think your notion of "learning capital" is probably a necessary part of learning to trade, it is what makes real money different from paper trading. The trick is to be patient enough to do it with one-lots, and give yourself a few years to learn the craft. I think the "technique" of trading can be probably generalized and taught, but I don't think that is the case with self-awareness in this or any context. Unfortunately, the technique is the easy part. Also, as you say, patience..... Why people are willing to go to college for 4 or more years to learn to be an accountant, or apprentice for 4 or 5 years to be a carpenter, but think that they can take $10,000 and become rich in a year or two while working at trading for a couple of hours at night and on weekends is beyond me. I believe that if you think of it like that, you realize just how absolutely stupid that notion sounds. I think you have the parts all there: patience, creativity, LOTS of hard work, and I would add a healthy dose of self-knowledge. Good Trading, Jessie