Middle East Meltdown and US Foreign Policy.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by SouthAmerica, Jul 13, 2006.

  1. .

    July 16, 2006

    SouthAmerica: Reply to Dddooo

    It is obvious to me based on your replies that we can’t have a civil discussion about this subject – that is why I ignore most of the time this subject and have turned off any interest that I had about it a long time ago.

    You are obviously a Jew who probably is living in Israel – you take everything personally maybe because you are too close to that mess.

    I am an impartial observer and I have friends who are Jewish and also Moslem and I see things looking from the outside and I see the way both groups react to each other.

    A lot of things that I wrote on prior postings must have hit a soft spot judging by your reactions.

    Instead of having a civil discussion about historic facts – even when I said that I had made a typo about a figure and recognized there was an error – you came back and used that information to say that I was lying. (or you are not too bright or your job is to be online to spread misinformation regarding Israel.)

    You can’t re-write history to justify your position – in this case about the creation of the State of Israel. It is a fact that in 1920, when the British started their mandate in Palestine that the Palestine population was only 500,000 people including 55,000 Jews.

    Twenty-seven years later the total population of Palestine had increased to 1,900,000 people including 600,000 Jews.

    It is obvious to me that in 1920 the Arab population represented 89 percent of total population (445,000 people) and the Jewish population represented 11 percent of the total population (55,000 people) – Palestine had been populated mainly by the Moslems for hundreds of years and there is no doubt that that area had been Moslem country for a long time.

    That is a fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Because the Jews moved to that area of the world during a period of 27 years because they were running from trouble in other areas of the world – that does not give them the right to take the land of other people who had been living there for centuries.

    On your “real intelligent comments” you want to imply that the land in Palestine never belonged to anyone before of the British occupation. (real bright logic!!!!)

    It does not matter today, if Israel had the right to create a new Jewish state on Palestine land in 1947.

    Today, Israel has a very powerful argument on its favor to settle that discussion – it is called a nuclear arsenal with nuclear bombs and also very powerful hydrogen bombs.

    When a country is armed with Nukes nobody will evict the population of that country – unless some fool goes for total annihilation – but in that case there are no winners – only losers.

    What happened in 1947 with the blessings of the British or the United Nations it does not matter today since Israel is armed with a powerful nuclear arsenal.

    As I mentioned before many times, I have no idea how to resolve the current problems between Israel and the Arab world – they have to work things out among themselves and nobody else will be able to resolve the problems for them.

    I see the way DDDooo reacts on this message board when he does not agree with what someone wrote about this subject – The reality is: It must be really crazy and impossible for anyone to be a negotiator among all these people.

    This subject it is like a “catch-22” – it does not matter what you say you will be in trouble.

    #31     Jul 16, 2006
  2. Enough said. It's indeed hard to have a civilized discussion with a person whose every statement is factually wrong.

    They did not take the land, they BOUGHT it.


    #32     Jul 16, 2006
  3. Humpy


    Not many people know this but the Jews were offered the highlands of Kenya by Britain. The offer was rejected at the conference in Basle about 1910.
    I wonder what would be happening there now if the offer had been accepted ??????????
    #33     Jul 16, 2006
  4. .

    Quote from southamerica:
    that does not give them the right to take the land of other people


    DDDooo: They did not take the land, they BOUGHT it.


    SouthAmerica: When you buy land it does not give you the right to start your new country. It gives you the right to live where you bought your land and enjoy your new property.

    #34     Jul 17, 2006
  5. .

    July 17, 2006

    SouthAmerica: Lebanon - Another Bush success story goes up in flames.


    July 16, 2006
    “Humiliating spectacle of a world leader caught without a policy”
    Michael Gawenda Herald Correspondent in Washington
    The Sydney Morning Herald – Australia

    IT WAS a stark admission of helplessness from the leader of the world's only super power.

    With Israeli jets bombing Beirut airport and Hezbollah rockets landing in Haifa, Israel's third-largest city, the US President was asked what he could do to stop the fighting escalating.

    Standing beside the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, at a press conference in Rostock before he left for the G8 summit in St Petersburg, George Bush said: "We were headed towards the road map, things looked positive, and the terrorists stepped up. It's really sad where people are prepared to take innocent life to stop that process … in fact it's pathetic."

    Israel had a right to defend itself, he said, but he was concerned about the "fragile democracy" in Lebanon.

    That response was an admission his administration does not have a policy on the conflict. In fact it has not had a policy since the surprise election victory in January of Hamas in a poll that Washington had encouraged.

    The so-called road map for peace is dead and the Bush Administration is paralysed in the face of what threatens to become a region-wide conflict involving Israel, Lebanon, Syria and even Iran. What does Bush expect as he pleads with Israel not to weaken the Lebanese Government in the wake of the bombing of its capital's airport and a blockade of sea ports?

    How much more fragile can Lebanon's democracy get when its government admits it cannot do anything about a United Nations Security Council resolution demanding Hezbollah disarm, saying it is powerless to rein in Hezbollah, which has two ministers in the government?

    At home, the Bush Administration is under scrutiny by Congress for its handling of the "war on terrorism" and prickly issues such as Guantanamo Bay, the secret CIA prisons where al-Qaeda suspects are taken to be interrogated, and the wire-tapping of Americans without court warrants.

    The Administration has failed to pressure China to get tough with North Korea and force Pyongyang back to the six-party talks on its nuclear weapons program. Iran, meanwhile, has rejected out of hand a package of inducements if it halts its uranium enrichment program. Observers say Iran has responded to threats of a Security Council resolution and UN sanctions by encouraging Hezbollah and the armed wing of Hamas to provoke Israel into just the sort of reaction seen in the past couple of days.

    Zalmay Khalilzad, the US ambassador to Iraq, says Iran is probably behind the Hamas and Hezbollah cross-border attacks on Israeli Army units and the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. The US must be "on guard" against Iran's actions in Iraq.

    "Yes, this is probably all tied up with the Iranian nuclear issue," he says. "They might be sending a message about how they might respond to Security Council sanctions."

    With the Middle East teetering on the edge of conflagration, the Bush Administration seems unsure of what to do next.


    July 17, 2006
    Hezbollah: The 'Party of God'

    Q: What is Hezbollah?

    A: Hezbollah is a coalition of radical Shiite Islamist organizations that was founded in 1982 in response to Israel's invasion and occupation of southern Lebanon. It has political, armed and welfare wings. Its name means Party of God.

    Hezbollah's political wing holds 23 seats in Lebanon's 128-member parliament. Two Lebanese Cabinet ministers are Hezbollah members.

    The group runs free schools, clinics, hospitals, orphanages, agricultural services and an extensive social welfare network designed to aid Lebanese Shiites. Shiites, about a third of Lebanon's population, are among the poorest Lebanese.

    The group, which the Council on Foreign Relations estimates has several thousand members,operates mainly in southern Lebanon, parts of Beirut and the Bekaa Valley.

    Hezbollah's armed wing has carried out or has been linked to hundreds of terror attacks. Among them:

    • The 1983 suicide bombing that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines in their Beirut barracks.

    • The kidnappings of Americans in Lebanon in the 1980s.

    • The 1985 hijacking of TWA Flight 847.
    When Israel withdrew its forces from southern Lebanon in 2000, Hezbollah claimed credit for driving the Israelis out.

    Q: What does the group want?

    A: In addition to its professed desire to destroy Israel, Hezbollah wants a Lebanon that is an Iranian-style Islamic republic.

    Q: Where does Hezbollah get money and arms?

    A: Iran and Syria are its main backers. Iranian Revolutionary Guards helped form the group and maintain close ties with it. A United Nations Security Council resolution, adopted in 2004, called for its disarmament.

    Q: Can the Lebanese government control Hezbollah?

    A: Hezbollah and its fighters operate with impunity in much of Lebanon. The government and its armed forces — composed of mainly Sunni Muslims and Christians — have been reluctant to try to force it to disarm for fear of sparking another civil war.

    Q: Who leads Hezbollah?

    A: Hassan Nasrallah is the group's senior political leader. Sheik Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah is its spiritual leader.

    Sources: U.S. State Department, Council on Foreign Relations, Global Security, USA TODAY research.

    #35     Jul 17, 2006
  6. .

    July 17, 2006

    SouthAmerica: Since the April 2005 withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon and subsequent democratic elections in Lebanon – the Bush administration has been showcasing Lebanon as a major victory for democracy on the Middle East.

    Bush’s major goal on his 2nd term is to spread democracy around the world – starting with the countries in the Middle East - and the Palestinian Authority, and Lebanon are the main victories of the Bush administration accomplished so far.

    As it is obvious to me if you follow the Bush doctrine then your country end up in ashes.

    So much for spreading democracy around the world “Bush style.”

    The worse part is that these clowns don’t learn their lesson and they will continue their crazy foreign policy until the governments in Iran, and Venezuela are also in a complete mess.

    Yes, Venezuela becomes an important target for USA action as the US becomes desperate on its pursue for a source of oil as the Middle East goes through a Meltdown.


    Withdrawal of Syrian troops in 2005

    Major General Jamil Sayyed, the top Syrian ally in the Lebanese security forces, resigned on April 25, 2005. The following day the last 250 Syrian troops withdrew from Lebanon.

    During the departure ceremonies, Syria's Chief of Staff Gen Ali Habib said that Syria's president had decided to recall his troops after the Lebanese army had been "rebuilt on sound national foundations and became capable of protecting the state."
    UN forces led by Senegalese Brig Gen Mouhamadou Kandji were sent to Lebanon to verify the military withdrawal which was mandated by UN Security Council Resolution 1559.

    United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559

    United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 was a resolution adopted by the United Nations Security Council on September 2, 2004. It called upon Syria to end its military presence in Lebanon by withdrawing its forces and to cease intervening in internal Lebanese politics. The resolution also called on all Lebanese militias (including Hezbollah) to disband.

    Nine countries voted in favor: Angola, Benin, Chile, France, Germany, Romania, Spain, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Six countries abstained: Algeria, Brazil, the People's Republic of China, Pakistan, the Philippines and Russia.

    The resolution was sponsored by France and the United States. The cooperation between these two nations on an issue concerning the Middle East was seen as a significant improvement in their relationship, compared to their earlier bitter disagreement over the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Due to the fact that Lebanon was governed by France as a League of Nations mandate 1919-1943, France has long taken a special interest in Lebanon.

    Syria made few moves to comply with the resolution until the assassination of Rafik Hariri, the former Prime Minister of Lebanon, on February 14, 2005.

    International pressure to withdraw intensified and public perception in Lebanon turned strongly against Syria, evidenced by mass demonstrations that were labeled the Cedar Revolution. President Bashar al-Assad of Syria announced on March 5, 2005 that he planned to "bring his forces home." The withdrawal, involving about 14,000 troops, took about seven weeks to complete.

    On April 26, 2005, after 29 years of military action in Lebanon, the last Syrian troops left Lebanon.

    #36     Jul 17, 2006
  7. SteveD


    The reason the Arabs/Muslims do not like Israel is that it shows what total brain dead primitives they are.

    Listen to the Pres of Iran. Kill the Jews, wipe them off of the world map. Kill the US.

    Winston Churchill wanted to take out Hitler in the 30's. He was called a "war monger" and , of course, the more enlightened intellectuals of the day chose to "engaged and appease" the Furher.

    Neville Chamberlain (John Kerry's hero) came back waving a piece of paper that was proof he had achieved "peace in our time".

    Of course, WWII saw some 50 million killed around the world

    Syria and Iran are the only two left. Both leaders are dead men walking. They are just too stupid to know it.

    The Syrian president will go into exile. The Iranian is going to be killed probably within the next few months by moderates within Iran.

    In 50 years Bush will be a hero and Clinton will be a forgotten President who was impeached.

    #37     Jul 17, 2006
  8. It must be fun to live in your world.
    #38     Jul 17, 2006
  9. http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1066034#post1066034
    #39     Jul 17, 2006
  10. SteveD


    I live in the real world.

    When someone says I want to destroy you and kill you.

    I take him serious.

    He is a madman.

    You people are totally delusional.

    I hope it is from inhaled or ingested items and is not genetic.

    That is the difference between Rep and Dem.

    Dem live in the past in a "scripted" world. Let's just all get along, LOL.

    When you get out of high school you will began to grow up, hopefully.

    #40     Jul 17, 2006