. Dddooo: Oh but you do. You have brought up every single anti-israel lie, distortion and prejudice typically used by jew-haters and you have actually managed to invent several your own unique lies and distortions. If you prefer to be called anti-Israel rather than antisemite - it's fine with me. *********** July 15, 2006 SouthAmerica: I have many friends who are Jewish and they know I am not a Jew- hater or antisemite as you put it. I know you want to perpetuate a Jewish position as a victim, but I donât look at Israel in the same way as you do it. I see Israel as a country full of very smart people who are able to defend themselves from attack from anybody. I donât see Israel as a victim that is being subjected to repression and worse. ****** dddooo: now you're accusing Israel of being in the spotlight of the world attention... ****** SouthAmerica: That is what I noticed over a period of more than 30 years â something happen around the world or the US the mainstream media covers what is happening then â but as soon as there is a chance the crisis regarding Israel always comes back over and over again â as if that was the most important problem around the world. I know a lot of people who are not against Jews and Israel, but they are tired of that subject. Enough is enough. *********** dddooo: It's actually the other way around, Israel receives its cash flow according to the peace agreement with Jordan and Egypt. Jordan and Egypt receive similar amount of aid. ************ SouthAmerica: Here are some of the US financial aid that the US gives Israel on an annual basis. Foreign aid to Israel from US sources alone, are the following amounts: Year - amount 2005 - 2.58 Billion US dollars 2004 - 2.62 Billion US dollars 2001 - 2.82 Billion US dollars and so onâ¦â¦â¦. Here are the top 16 recipients of U.S. foreign aid for 2005: 1. Israel 2.58 Billion 2. Egypt 1.84 Billion 3. Afganistan 0.98 Billion 4. Pakistan 0.70 Billion 5. Colombia 0.57 Billion 6. Sudan 0.50 Billion 7. Jordan 0.48 Billion 8. Uganda 0.25 Billion 9. Kenya 0.24 Billion 10. Ethiopia 0.19 Billion 11. South Africa 0.19 Billion 12. Peru 0.19 Billion 13. Indonesia 0.18 Billion 14. Bolivia 0.18 Billion 15. Nigeria 0.18 Billion 16. Zambia 0.18 Billion source: CRS Report for Congress: Foreign Aid: An Introductory Overview of U.S. Programs and Policy Updated January 19, 2005, page 14 http://shelby.senate.gov/legislation/ForeignAid.pdf Here are the top 16 recipients of U.S. foreign aid for 2004: 1. Iraq 18.44 Billion 2. Israel 2.62 Billion 3. Egypt 1.87 Billion 4. Afghanistan 1.77 Billion 5. Colombia 0.57 Billion 6. Jordan 0.56 Billion 7. Pakistan 0.39 Billion 8. Liberia 0.21 Billion 9. Peru 0.17 Billion 10. Ethiopia 0.16 Billion 11. Bolivia 0.15 Billion 12. Turkey 0.15 Billion 13. Uganda 0.14 Billion 14. Sudan 0.14 Billion 15. Indonesia 0.13 Billion 16. Kenya 0.13 Billion source: CRS Report for Congres:: Foreign Aid: An Introductory Overview of U.S. Programs and Policy, April 15, 2004, page 13 http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/trade/files/98-916.pdf Here are the top 15 recipients of U.S. foreign aid for 2001: 1. Israel 2.82 Billion 2. Egypt 1.987 Billion 3. Jordan 0.227 Billion 4. Kosovo 0.184 Billion 5. Ukraine 0.178 Billion 6. Russia 0.174 Billion 7. Indonesia 0.149 Billion 8. Ethiopia 0.124 Billion 9. India 0.122 Billion 10. Georgia 0.107 Billion 11. Bangladesh 0.101 Billion 12. Serbia 0.10 Billion 13. Peru 0.097 Billion 14. Armenia 0.092 Billion 15. Bosnia 0.089 Billion CRS Report for Congress: Foreign Aid: An Introductory Overview of U.S. Programs and Policy Updated April 6, 2001, page 12 http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/crs/98-916_010406.pdf (Note that these documents are in PDF format, so the Adobe Acrobat Reader is required. If you don't have that, visit: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html ) ****************** dddooo: It's less then 2 percent buddy, not 20 percent and the money is spent primarily on defence which Israel would not have to do in case of a peace agreement with Israel's neighbors. ***************** SouthAmerica: That was a typo. I was trying to say US Financial aid represented between 2 and 3 percent of Israelâs GDP. And in the long run â letâs say a period of 10 years â we are talking about over $ 30 billion US dollars. It is a lot of money that US taxpayers could be using for something else. Israel received in financial aid $ 2.6 billion during 2005 when Israelâs GDP was estimated at $ 114.3 billion US dollars. The financial aid represented a nice chunk of the Israeli economy - I mean in terms of Israel and its small economy. ( Not in terms of the size of the US economy) Israel - GDP (official exchange rate): $114.3 billion (2005 est.) Source: CIA factbook ********** dddooo: In the end of the 1940s jews and arabs lived in Palestine - like it or not but that was the actual situation on the ground and your suggestion that the UN should have created Israel but not Palestine in Sudan is preposterous, biased and stupid. ************ SouthAmerica: First, the UN could have just reestablished the Palestinian state with a 90 percent Arab population and the 10 percent Jewish population. And no one would be asked to move out to any other place. When Ottoman control came to an end, following World War I, the number of Jews in Palestine had declined to 55,000 out of a total population of Palestine of 500,000 people. Second, when the British was considering the creation of a new Jewish state they were trying to accommodate the inflow of Jews from Europe who were survivals of the holocaust. And if they had created the new Jewish state in the Sudan as the British government were considering at that time the minority of Jews living in Palestine were not going to be evicted from their home in Palestine â they would continue being just a very small minority living inside Palestine. If any of these Jews who were living in Palestine wanted to move to the Sudan to the newly created Jewish state that would be their personal decision and they would not be forced to relocate to the Sudan. Nobody was talking about forced relocation of anyone to the Sudan. *********** dddooo: the British did not create Israel, moron, the UN did. *********** SouthAmerica: That was after the British gave up on their occupation of the Palestinian lands. The Jews came close to get a home in Africa at the Sudan before the British gave up and passed the problem to the United Nations. By the way, the United Nations it was founded in 1945 at the signing of the United Nations Charter by 51 countries, replacing The League of Nations which was founded in 1919. The UN was founded after the end of World War II by the victorious world powers with the hope that it would act to prevent conflicts between nations and make future wars impossible, by fostering an ideal of collective security. You talk about of the United Nations as if the UN had been around for 100 years. But for your information in 1947 the UN was taking baby steps in the international arena since they had just formed that organization. ************** dddooo: 9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with Israel, it had much more to do with the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, with american troops in Saudia Arabia, with Saddam's invasion of Kuwait. Again your ignorance is staggering. ************ SouthAmerica: I did not say that Israel was to blame for 9/11. I said that if the new Jewish state had been created on a piece of the Sudan in Africa instead of where Israel is located today â a lot of problems would have been avoided in the Middle East. The Israel/Arab conflict would not exist in the Middle East. The US would not have an adversary position against most Arab states (because of the Israel Palestinian problem.) The geopolitical structure of the Middle East would have been very different â and subsequent events may not have happen. Saddam Hussein might still be in power in Iraq, Bin Ladden would not have been pissed at the US for having American troops in Saudi Arabia, and so onâ¦â¦ You call me ignorant when you are the one who canât grasp the difference of the different scenarios and the resulting outcomes. .
SouthAmerica: I have many friends who are Jewish and they know I am not a Jew- hater or antisemite as you put it. LOL "my best friend is a jew [and he agrees with me]" is the first claim of every antisemite. I did not say that you're a jew-hater BTW, I don't know that, I said you're an Israel hater which IMO is obvious from your biased posts. I donât see Israel as a victim that is being subjected to repression and worse. They are not victims indeed but not because others are not trying to victimize them but because they are determined not to let that hapen. Huge difference with what you imply. something happen around the world or the US the mainstream media covers what is happening then â but as soon as there is a chance the crisis regarding Israel always comes back over and over again So you are no longer blaming Israel for being in the international spotlight cause that's what you did in your previuos post. Now if you're accusing the world and the US media of absurdly scrutinizing every development in the ME I absolutely agree but Israel suffers, not benefits from this attention. 2005 - 2.58 Billion US dollars So you don't disagree that it was part of Israel's peace agreement cause in your previous post you claimed Israel would lose it if peace is ever established. SouthAmerica: That was a typo. I was trying to say US Financial aid represented between 2 and 3 percent of Israelâs GDP. You don't even have the courage to admit that you were wrong. Claiming that the US aid is a huge percent of Israel's GDP is a very typical distortion among Israel haters and it's impossible to type 20 instead of 2 - 3, letters '3', '-' and '0' are on the opposite sides of the keyboard. SouthAmerica: First, the UN could have just reestablished the Palestinian state It could not have re-established what had never been established, the Palestinian state had never existed. Second, when the British was considering the creation of a new Jewish state they were trying to accommodate the inflow of Jews from Europe who were survivals of the holocaust. If you have a problem with the British why don't you take it to the queen, why are criticizing Israel for what the brits did. dddooo: the British did not create Israel, moron, the UN did. SouthAmerica: That was after the British gave up on their occupation of the Palestinian lands. That does not change the fact that the UN not the British created Israel despite your attempts to distort these facts in your previous post. SouthAmerica: I did not say that Israel was to blame for 9/11. You implied that, for all intents and purposes you accused Israel of 9/11
. Wabrew: Thank you for the History - another poster mentioned that in 1947 some money changed hands between Arabs and Jews and that land was "legally transferred" to Isreal. Do you know anything about this? ************** July 16, 2006 SouthAmerica: You must be thinking in terms of the United States and Thomas Jefferson when during his presidency he made the Louisiana Purchase (1803) from France. At that time Jefferson bought from the French half of the land that is part of the United States today. (note: the Louisiana Purchase it is half of the US territory if we do not include the United States latest land grab in Iraq and Afghanistan â and possibly in the near future also in Venezuela.) I think the other poster was implying that the Jews who moved to Palestine bought a piece of land the same way anyone is allowed to buy a piece of land in the US today. For example Ted Turner is the largest private landowner in the United States today â but I donât think that this gives him the right to create his own country inside the US just because he bought the land â as the other poster said of the Jews in Palestine âI can assure you that Jews paid the market price and all paperwork was in order.â â I am sure that Ted Turner also paid the market price for his land and all paperwork is in order, but that gives him the right to start his own country? - Even if he claims religion to be the reason or as the basis for the creation of his new country? I donât think so. The American people will not go for that. .
. Ddooo: It could not have re-established what had never been established, the Palestinian state had never existed. That does not change the fact that the UN not the British created Israel despite your attempts to distort these facts in your previous post. ************ July 16, 2006 SouthAmerica:As I mentioned before this Israel/Arab problem I avoid like the plague because we canât have a honest discussion about it. We canât discuss the history â why the entire problem became the mess that we have today, and the so on, the discussion always transform itself in the usual â you must be an antisemite, a Jew-hater, or anti-Israel and so on⦠You canât have an intelligent conversation on this subject when any criticism regarding Israel will be taken on that fashion. I mentioned in many of my postings that the Jews are a very intelligent group of people, and I also said that the Israeli army is probably the best army in the world when we consider their size and resources. On my articles the various times when I did mention Israel I always mentioned Israel as a country that is able to take care of themselves and they donât need orders from anyone else â the difference between being an adult and a child. I always said Israel is a capable adult and you want Israel to be treated as a child and a victim. I also said right from the beginning the reason why I donât like to discuss the Israel/Arab crisis â it is because I have no idea how to resolve that problem today. By the way, the United Nations came out with a brilliant solution for the problem in Palestine in 1947 â the UN creates a new Jewish state for 10 percent of the population and left the other 90 percent of the population in limbo. *** Limbo: A region or condition of oblivion or neglect: .
SouthAmerica: in 1947 â the UN creates a new Jewish state for 10 percent of the population and left the other 90 percent of the population in limbo. Population of Palestine 1947 TOTAL 1,845,000: 67% non-Jewish ( 1,237,000 ) 33% Jewish ( 608,000 ) http://www.representativepress.org/IsraelHistory.html And the other 67% of the population were not left in limbo, they got their own country, they just did not accept it and invaded Israel. Limbo: A region or condition of oblivion or neglect: Ignorance: lack of knowledge, education, or awareness
. July 16, 2006 SouthAmerica: During the British Mandate (1920-1948) the population of Palestine went from a total population of 500,000 people including 55,000 Jews in 1920 to a population of 1,900,000 people including 600,000 Jews in 1948. During that period the Palestine total population quadrupled (up 4 times), but the number of Jews went up 11 times the number of Jews in 1920. Trans-Jordan exported unskilled casual labor to Palestine; but before 1948 its civil service attracted a good many educated Palestinian Arabs who did not find work in Palestine itself. Demographically speaking, however, neither movement of population was significant in comparison to the decisive factor of natural increase. By 1948, the Palestine population had risen to 1,900,000, of whom 68% were Arabs, and 32% were Jews. Common sense tells me that in 1947, the United Nations should have created only one country called Palestine for the 1,900,000 people living in that area at that time. ********* If we follow the same âabsurdâ ideas to justify the split of Palestine in 1947 â then why not separate the State of Texas in the US to accommodate the 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants living in the US today? (if we also add the legal immigrants living in the USA then we probably have around 40 million foreign born people living in the US today.) If just by moving a bunch of people to a new land gives them the right to create a new state or a new country â then all the foreign people living in the US today has the right to create a new country from a piece of the current United States territory - Take your pick: Texas, Florida, New York or California. But everybody knows that this kind of reasoning it does not stick even with crazy glue. .
southamerica lies: in 1947 â the UN creates a new Jewish state for 10 percent of the population southamerica 1 hr later: By 1948, the Palestine population had risen to 1,900,000, of whom 68% were Arabs, and 32% were Jews. In this one thread you lied that -jews were 10 percent of the palestine population in 1947 when they made up 33% -that the US aid to Israel is $20 billion when it's actually $2.5 billion -jews consider themselves "the god's chosen people" when actually the bible and conservative religious christians do -you lied that Israel was established based on claims of land ownership dating back 2000 years when in reality it was based on land ownership in 1947 -you lied that palestine had existed as a sovereign country -you lied that palestinian arabs did not get their own country in 1947 and were left in limbo -you blamed Israel, not the us and world media for having the spotlight on Israel -you lied that the British not the UN created Israel -that the existance of Israel caused 9/11 Hmm I guess when you're saying you have no prejudice you must be saying the truth. If we follow the same âabsurdâ ideas to justify the split of Palestine in 1947 â then why not separate the State of Texas in the US to accommodate the 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants living in the US today? Texas is a state, Palestine was a British colony which had never existed as an indepedent country, too bad if you don't see a difference. A much better example is India and Pakistan, another excellent example is the split of the soviet union into 15 sovereign states, or the split of former Yugoslavia. See ignoramus, it can happen.
Look what happens when two aggressive philosophies meet head to head. I was trying to remember the guy's name who said something about turning the other cheek. Ah well any moron can pull a trigger I suppose and probably will !!!!!!!!!!!!!!