Acquiring land though wars....that makes it right? At least you admit to pillaging and plunder. More "self defense" eh? R^R
Absolutely, especially when the other side started those wars and you are willling to exchange land for peace. Too bad there are no takers, or like in Lebanon's case, they took the land but did not provide peace. PS when you start a war and lose it you can't expect to restore the status quo, rinse and repeat, there is a price to pay. You are beginning to sound exactly like Wael.
Personally, I wish we could build a dome around the entire region and let them slaughter each other to their hearts content. Finding a peaceful solution is about as likely as the dome being built. Radical Islam is hell bent on destroying the Jews, and the Jews, love em or hate em, aren't just going to lay down and die. This will end with millions dead....tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, next century, it's coming. There is zero chance of peace in the mid-east. I wish all trades were so easy to perdict.
Right Ivanovich. A lot of these people that like to "please" and "give in to the demands" of these terrorists conveniently forget what happened in Paris with the Muslims. They want their own justice system. Rather than any other immigrant these people are hellbent on establishing their own state in the country that they go to. Was it not Roosvelt who mentioned that immigrants need to adapt to the laws and customs of their new country and if they don't then they have no right to be an immigrant and should not be in that country? These people all forget that being an immigrant is a privilige. So, you all goat humper pleasers, you really think they stop? And yes Ivanovich - human stupidity never ceases to amaze me. vital statistix
There is an expression in the medical world: Doctors who do not take firm measures create stinking wounds and loose their patient. (A cancer has to be cut out, it cannot be cured with salves)
Iâm not sure if the Israelis have the will to fight like they did in the past⦠Some of this has to do with stupid Leftist ideology Iâm sure. But also, 14-15% Israelis are Muslim: http://www.factbook.net/muslim_pop.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country Iâm shocked by this. And that percentage is roughly the same as the Hispanic population in the United States. And as an American, I can tell you how much influence 14-15% ethnocentrics have on the nationâs government. So, before you put that dome over the conflict, realize that Israel might lose the fight.
Hmm... okay, I could have sworn I read somewhere that he is. He claims to be religious and he throws the word GOD around a lot (which makes sense, of course). He had that bit on the ID thread about believing the earth was exactly 1,789,491,745 years old; he became very upset when someone suggested that the actual number might be 1,789,491,744 or 1,789,456,746. Someone else suggested that this number was drawn from some article he read on an Eastern belief system, although I can't remember which one. Anyway, I still maintain that it would be extremely interesting to be able to confirm this rumour that Z is a former Muslim who converted to some other religion. I believe it would put into context his consistently anti-Israeli stance on these boards.
Yes, it is imperative that Israel be supported in efforts to eliminate all weapons that can threaten her people; to root out and destroy terrorists who violate common standards of humanity. No, this need not, cannot, and must not be done in ways that create unnecessary deaths of civilian non-combatants. Let's step back. Many of Israel's strongest supporters, including myself, realize that the last decade of policy of occupation was not wisely conceived or well executed. The essence of what Prime Minister Sharon was doing, was extricating Israel from that policy, because, with has vast military experience, he understood. There is a distinction between supporting Israel, supporting the Israeli people, supporting the policies of Peace Now or the Labor Party, versus buying into the strategy of the more hard line viewpoints. They had their way, a better way is needed, Prime Minster Sharon understood. Lets step back. Many of America's strongest supporters, realize that the invasion and the occupation of Iraq was poorly conceived, and poorly executed, and harmful to our country, our cause, the people of Iraq, the war against terrorism. And we seek in good faith, though our bipartisanship is only met with partisanship, to find policies that can accomplish worthy goals for America and Iraq. The problem, Professor Dershowitz, is that our debate has shifted so far to the right, so far from policies that are effective and based on our highest traditions. The right, so to speak has had their way. It has not worked. A better way is needed. Of course, Israel should and must destroy the terrorist apparatus, weaponry and ability to lob weapons of death. But in a war that is counter- insurgent and asymmetrical, there are deadly dangers, and strategic and tactical weaknesses in overemphasizing heavy bombardment from long distance, and aerial bombardment that cannot alway be targeted efficiently and that inevitably results in civilian deaths that are not necessary, and offer minimal military gain. Obviously, in war, there are trade-offs. Some civilian casualties are inevitable. In earlier Lebanon crisis President Reagan told Prime Minister Begin those trade-offs, at that time, were wrong. Far be it from me, to suggest what President Reagan would say today, but I will say this: we miss his voice profoundly. Lovers of America and lovers of Israel can believe, and many of us do, that there is a better way than what the United States States has done in Iraq, and what Israel has at times done in the occupation. Far be from me, to suggest what Prime Minister Sharon would say to us today, but clearly, he was searching for a better way, and while I never thought I would say this, his voice is missed, as well. So I answer your challenge, Professor, this way: I support an Israeli response that is aggressive, that does aim to kill the terrorists to every degree possible, that does create a zone of safety on the Israel-Lebanon border, that does destroy as many weapons as possible without falling into the trap of "destroying a village to save it." Democracy in Lebanon is at a critical moment; the million who marched in the street for freedom are still there; the Lebanese military does not have the capacity today to do what is being asked of them. They need military and financial support, they need military training and logistical back up; they need international backing to fortify their army and policies that help them, help us. But; it serves neither the values nor the safety of either America or Israel to destabilize the nascent democracy that had begun to take hold in Lebanon. It serves neither our values nor our safety to advance our security in ways that kill innocent civilians and non-combatants without a commensurate military gain that can justify this. It serves neither our values nor our safety to alienate so much of the goodwill of the democratic world, and so many of the next generation of men and women in the Middle East who abhor both terrorism and occupation and who's hearts and minds we need to win, to win the war. If God granted me a wish, these policies would have been constructed by President Gore in tandem with Prime Minister Rabin, or by conservatives such as Reagan and Thatcher, or by Prime Minister Sharon, who were far more sophisticated than most conservatives today. That wish was not granted, but the facts and the reality yield overpowering evidence that there are better ways than what has been done and what is being done today. We must wage a war to kill the terrorists; we must combine the military and diplomatic as President Reagan did in the events leading up to his talks with Gorbachev and our victory in the Cold War, remembering that it was the Soviets, not America, who invaded Eastern Europe. At times we must pay the price militarily, and we must pay the price economically in offering a better life for young Israelis and Arabs alike, and we must show far greater commitment to the support of democracy in Lebanon, which could be a crown jewel of democratic progress and a most effective long term guarantee of Israel's security, and ours. In fact, the free world also should unite in greater support of democracy in Iran, which does not mean invasion or air strikes, but certainly does mean finding ways to support the aspirations of young Iranians, Iranian women, Iranian workers, Iranian intellectuals, and advocates of tolerance and freedom. And, as with Iraq, as with Palestine, as with Lebanon, there must be the credible threat, and at time use, of military force combined with the force of ideas, the force of economic opportunity, and the truth that we should never negotiate out of fear, but never fear to negotiate. This will require weapons from the special forces, special ops, targeted air strikes, but it will also require the moral integrity of our values, the economic benefits of our system, the intelligent use of our diplomacy, and at every level an understanding that the real battle, must always be based on a battle of ideas and aspirations. So, I say this to you, Professor, with great respect for you personally, and for your commitment to Israel, which I certainly share. But there are times when power can be used disportionately or unwisely, against our real interests, against our values, against the unity that the free world needs now more than ever. You are absolutely right; and I will raise you one, about this: Hezbollah, Bin Laden, all of them do indeed want us to kill civilians, and they thrive on the Guantanamos and Abu Ghraibs. Perhaps those who make our policies should give long and serious reflection to what this tells us, and why they want this, which of course is simple. The more we do these things the more terrorists they recruit, which is why we must be smart, as well as tough, in waging our wars. Being strong, and powerful, and great, gives us the strength of power and principles to make every effort to protect the innocent from the bombs. Being Israel and America should give us the wisdom and judgment, to know from our values and learn from our history, that we must defend like Lions both our security, and our standards, and to make the maximum effort to kill the terrorists, while we make the maximum effort to protect the innocent, which is what we stand for, and how we win. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brent-budowsky/an-answer-to-professor-de_b_25414.html