It is funny that you are asking for help from mentors, which would put you at the rawest of raw newbies, and then you offer your "personal point of view" about "market wizards" and how "trading should not be much different." Either you are some sort of spy et-handle "pushing" that which you claim you are seeking, or you aren't worth mentoring because you come with preconceptions and opinions. nitro
I recently took a mentoring session with Brandon of TFMS and found it very productive. They spent a lot of time looking at prior trades I had made to pinpoint weaknesses, and of course spent a lot of time then and since in helping me to break the "mistakes" I was making over and over. He also worked on my strengths and weakneses as opposed to teaching me to trade like "him", which I feel is very important. I don't want to sound like a "homer" but my results since the class have been very good. All things equal I have increased my account 2%, 6% and now 12% in the last three months respectively, after months of losing, breaking even, or minimal gains. (I took the class the last week in Jan.) In reference to other points. If you want trading records of the mentor, heck, anyone will print you out some stellar trades, or show you results of an account that is doing great, its a little trickier than that. I have been in trading rooms Brandon has led and he has consistently produced good results in my estimation. Once again, not to sound like a "homer", but I think he and Toni are extremely well versed in the other aspects Zulu was inquiring about: market knowledge, strategic development, psychology, etc. I'd be glad to field questions if you want to email me privately. mildog
Which is why such a "record" should spark suspicion. There are a lot of "mentors" around who can't trade worth a damn. I'm only suggesting caution. Fortunately, Zulu's cautious.
Nitro , thx for chime in. Sorry but I don't understand what do you mean with this statement. Please elaborate. LOL. Ohh no my dear friend ain not spy here. I'm just trying to get as much feedback as possible about this particular issue. Honestly. Your keenness don't surprise me since I realized you've been around for a long while Nitro , even the biggest dumb of the newbies might have opinions and preconceptions. I don't think you gonna feel better , just because I don't have any. And yes , I know something about the markets, but not enuff from my own perspective. So why not searching for ways to improve? Perhaps I already have my vision about this Mentorship program in particular however receiving the feedback from others should be not a public offense. I guess. Your comments are welcome. Zulu
Well I certainly would be cautious, can't dispute that. Seems like Zulu is trying to do his homework. I got burned about 4 or 5 years ago by a guy who mentored a few people in a private room. Oh that was painful, trying to learn someone else's system, which had a lot of indicators, and had to be executed extremely fast for small gains. While that person seemed to mean well, it wasn't money well spent. I knew little about the markets and less about that guy. **there goes any credibility I may have had eh?.... well it was a long time ago and hopefully I'm not as dumb as I once was. Quite the opposite of my TFMS experience.
It is a good plan to try to check out opinions on any program before you choose to participate in it. I have offered the one you were inquiring on twice before and have limited class size to under 10 each time. The odds of anyone running across this thread that has taken that particular class are slim. However, in that group of people, all but two non-room members who took the course joined my trading room afterwards and one did not because of the time difference. Note: I did not advertise for the room at all during the course. I stink at marketing. If you have any questions personally to ask me about the program I would be happy to oblige. Just send me a pvt msg. It was brought up why track records are not posted. For one thing, as you mentioned, to be a good analyst and teacher is not the same thing as being a good trader. The reason is that with trading there is an emotional aspect that some people just have a tough time getting over. I know many good teachers and analysts that have a much harder time with trading, not because of the technical aspects, but because of fear. Additionally, I, and a number of other great trader/teachers have posted their records on sites such as this and it does not matter how you perform, you will always be treated like crap from a number of people. Frankly, who will post a bad trading record? Then for those that post good ones the arguements are limitless as to why you shouldn't believe what they posted, how results for a given period of time don't matter, etc. etc. To have to defend yourself everyday and go back and forth with someone who is feeling particularly challenging is really not worth the time and emotions it takes from you. A lot of excellent traders who teach market analysis and trading to new traders have been run off from the message boards as a result and that is a shame. As you can see with myself, I never visit message boards unless something is brought up to me, like this was. For what it is worth, here are my trades from today: (and no, to anyone posting next, I am not going to get into a drama back and forth over it... They were also posted live in our room and logs are available to members and trial members) I'll also post an example of my teaching from this week at a later time when I am not at risk of missing something during the trading day (which I probably should have thought about before I got to writing this post =). 10:53 5 minute ES triangle short at 1128.25 11:00 partials at 1126.5 +1.75 11:24 exit at 1124.5 +3.75 11:53 long ES scalp at 1125.25 12:02 exit at 1126.25 +1 12:35 long NQ at 1464.5 12:48 partials at 1466 +1.5 12:58 exit 1468.5 +4 Anyway, no matter what you decide to do Zulu, I wish you the best. Take it slow, trade small to start and give yourself time to learn from your mistakes as well as your talents. Most of all... have fun, because if you aren't enjoying what you are doing, it's not worth the time =)
There are a number of points made here that I have to address. First, one must wonder just how "great" a trading teacher can be if he has yet to come to terms with his own fear. Tharp is often provided as an example of this. But he didn't teach trading. Second, as for posting records, sorry, hasn't been done. What has been posted are either selected trades posted in hindsight, or "a day's worth" of trades posted in something relatively close to real-time, even though a day's worth, or even a week's worth is relatively meaningless. Of course, the point is made "who would post a bad trading record?" Well, nobody, which is why there is so much distrust of what is posted. Perhaps there have been some "excellent traders" who have been run off. But, if they're so excellent, one wonders why they're so shy about records. Third, the original question was asked of ET members in general, not of Toni in particular, much less Brandon. And the option of using PMs was provided. What're Toni and Brandon going to say, that their mentoring program is a waste of money? Zulu, what Toni and Brandon think of their own program is irrelevant. You've received some good responses, mostly for. And you seem not to be approaching this wide-eyed and dewy. Just hang on to at least a bit of skepticism.
Toni, I think it gives credibility. Threei posted a letter from his broker about his profits for 2003 after I asked him. He wasn't as specific as he could have been but it showed he was in profit at least.
I disagree with you. If you are willing to post a two year track record such as Nitro has mentioned what valid criticism can anyone give you? It's the cherry picking of trades that people can see right through.