Why don't we simply measure the total points gained, then divided by the average number of contracts (forthe total trades)? In this exercise, I would assume you could maintain the same performance in long-run. I would agree that improving the points per trade performance during a non-trending period would be harder, much harder.
LOL, Because I don't know the total points gained. Nor do I keep a record of the contracts per trade. The spreadsheet I posted is changed every full day I can trade and it contains the trades for whatever I'm trading, either NQ or ES. I only keep the results of the full days I trade. I have a lot of partials but I don't keep track of them statistically. I can then link how I traded on a particular day with that day's range and market efficiency, that is; how much trading activity it took to move across the range. In this way I can see on what days in the month I trade best. Currently I'm scalping. By recording my all day scalping sessions I know what my trading profile is like as a scalper and I know what nine days in the month I scalped well. Eventually I will be able to link certain trading behaviors to certain days of the month and will strive to trade those days in a certain way. Like someone posted earlier, when I am in a trade I don't think much about the big picture. But after trading I want to be able to fit that day into the bigger picture puzzle. Bruce
angry bull comprehends what he is saying. We all comprehend what you are telling us too. We all pull money periodically and you must pull money too.. We know you do you know we do. Just because you do not dicuss this stuff financially for your reasons, does not mean that we don't. Everyone who is trading any futures index and has done it for a few quarters, discusses it financially instead of how you chat about it. There are many items that have to be stated to compare trading and trading methods. Points per day doesn't mean anything as has been pointed to you over and over. A point per day long term average is only breakeven for some traders. For others it is losing money. You know that; we know that. We are glad you bring up what you do over and over. We look forward to your giving a minimal context. Skip the annualized Bill Gates stuff. You did the 250K, 125k, 62.5k on 5,000, 10k and 20k. We got it. People do more than 1 contract usually. Some people trade intraday and some people position trade. All these people can only compare stuff when it is dealt with financially. Do you ever notice how people ask you Q's and then stop asking you Q's. Spooky.
Jack Hershey... somehow, I am not surprised your beliefs coincide with people like AngryBull... so go ahead and believe... and once you have given up on believing, then come back to some semblance of reality, dude... If people like you and AngryBull are averaging 4-6pts per contract per day as a long run average, you are truly remarkable Gods of trading... but we knew that, didn't we? With some crude money management, you will soon both be rich enough to financially outgun a small country... Here's my book recommendation for the day, courtesy of marketsurfer... enjoy: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-4281573-2491253?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Unlike dreams, woolly assertions, and fancy arguments, the only way a trader will find out if he can average 4-6 points over the long-run is to trade over the long run and work out the numbers (over a few years with simple money management, any trader averaging 4-6 pts per contract per day will be richer than a small country)... any newbies here parading themselves as hardened veterans are in for a rude awakening a few years down the line when their notions of extreme wealth based on their proposed 4-6pt average, in all probability, fails to materialize... In my view, there is most definitely a positive correlation between either or both of: 1) mathematical inadequacy and wild claims of multiple points per contract per day long run averages 2) newbie status (in ES trading) and such claims
Hi Candle Let me try to explain some points for your reference. 1. In Jack's old days, when trading futures, the traders usually keep their positions always in the market. That's why Jack calls it continuous. Because of this style, they try to capture the whole trend every time, if possible. In this case, they would not measure their results in 1,2,3, etc. points (for Scalping). The book Technical Trading Systems for Commodities and Stocks by Charles Patel contains more than 80 of this kind of systems (including some mechanical systems). 2. The TA particularly in those old days, when trading futures and commodities, was designed naturally again to capture the whole trend of each trend. Hence the daily results couldn't be just few points per day. There should be no arguments on this point. 3. As if the risk capital is enough to support the trend capturing approach, winning more than several points a day, even consistantly is not impoosible to many capital-intensive traders, like Jack. 4. We usually do not have much risk capital and therefore have to find our ways to suit out requirements and styles, such as targeting less points than those wealthy traders, like Jack. 5. Therefore, we all have to accept the differences between each other, agree the disagreement, due to the above facts. 6. One day we individually, (intra)day traders of moderate risk capital will become another Jack. That will be discussed later. Peace to all and have a very nice weekend!!!
Your mental disconnect is marvelous. Everyone here knows that trading accounts are kept in a range of values. You have a surplus of capital that is unused in yours as you tell us in the poll you conducted. Trading indexes certainly isn't the main game in town. People have capital. They use it to capitalize assets. These include: Businesses, homes, gliders, boats, cars, furnishngs, and so on down the line. Sometimes we can't buy what we want. I failed to find any star rubies (unmounted) in the usual places shopped before for them. No supply anymore. There are other places that are financially based for money to be placed. Protection, Tax deferment, incentive locations, locations for future growth. Illiquid applications of capital are possible. Long term family funds and such fit into the picture too. Family material loans to museums (check out the early american furniture in the Metropolitan in NYC; it is an asset on loan. A Manhattan dairy farm never sold for real estate profits turns out to work quite well as a long term land lease for builders of office buildings. Just look for the bronze plaque on the rows of buildings. What do you do with investment accounts? You may picture these as segments and under asset alocation management for handling the time constraints associated with them. Sets of investment rules apply. You must have read Gary Smith's biological and trading accounts in the books he has written. This is routine for many people like Gary Smith and those of his caliber. So you know where money made in leveraged accounts goes. And you know why it is taken out of the accounts. What is this silly bullshit you lay out about small countries (See above) and what does it mean when you come up with a poll about what to do with extra money you can't trade in a commodities account? Some one here said they thought a lot less of you when you answered their Q's about how you do your edge. They made assumptions that you had some degree of sophistication. Can you get over being hung up on this silly stuff you are pulling or are you just going to call us "dudes" and refer us to silly little pocket books that people give to teenagers for April Fool's day. Motley fools probably reviewed that book for the humor of it. People size their commodities accounts according to the market's liquidity. When the accounts (split to begin with) get big, they consider how to move the money to other capital market applications. What do you think I mean when I say I have a 100,000 share cap (think $30/share) on the streams of money I trade every 6 to 8 days in the stock market? Making 1 point on the ES03U daily H/L range? Why would any person in the world ever consider 1 point a day as a daily net earnings target. It is a gross daily earnings target that is a loser (below break even) for many edge trading strategies. There is no one that can talk about 1 point a day without putting it in a context. Think about a 1 point gap... It is the first time you ever did....lol Did you see that four tick gap up??? Was that a days long term average profits?? Did you see that? Did you reverse on that 1 point gap up? damn I I missed the retrace too. I'm going to go right in now to catch the 1 point trend as it resumes the main 1 point gap up trend. Damn that spread is 25% of my long term average again today. I hope it drops to a lower spread than 25% of my long term average. You have 20% draw downs and you make 10 points once in a while. 20% of what? 20% of the 5,000, the 10,000, the 20,000 per contract. Damn, it looks like 20% is a couple of points or so.