Megathread: Super Guilty Tuesday

Cuddles · Aug 22, 2018

vanzandt said:
Holy sh*t.... Lanny Davis is a former adviser/attorney to Bill Clinton and now he's speaking for Cohen and brokering a deal with Mueller to tell all about Trump?!

Man... the Clinton machine just never dies....
.....Oh to be a fly on the wall in some of these goings on. Damn.
More...

I expect you're being sarcastic, but the notion is funny either way

Buy1Sell2 · Aug 22, 2018

Spike Trader said:
He may not have knowingly did so but I bet he knew he was putting the knife in Trump's back when he insisted on setting up a company to pay Stormy off.
Trump was smart to suggest payment in cash but Cohen's was adamant. '' NO , NO , NO , I got this.'' he said repeatedly , leaving a paper trail.
But if as you said he did not do so knowingly then Cohen and Trump have nothing to worry about.
Lets see what happens.
More...

Trump has nothing to worry about whatsoballsout.

Buy1Sell2 · Aug 22, 2018

maximumpossiblesuffering said:
Reply to your post is inline below:

"piezoe, post: 4713917, member: 45984"]I like the way you are at least attempting to think and not just parroting some talk radio line as we sometimes see here. But let's take this one sentence in your comments. This one, from the above quote.

"Hilary who [was] under Federal "investigation" by apparently giving her a weeks notice that her computer was going to be looked at. Low and behold, some files had gone missing. Trump's lawyer's office got raided with no notice."

You have assumed something that I would guess can not be supported by fact. Namely, you seem to be suggesting that Hillary was tipped off that her computer was going to be looked at.
Although I vaguely recall some talk show comment on this a long time ago, the basis for the comment was a conversation I had today with someone I met for the first time. Although this person spoke authoratively about Hillary being tipped off by the FBI, he was likely parroting something he heard. Like me, apparently, in my previous Hilary comment.

Well, that is correct. But what was the form of the tip off. It surely wasn't someone from the FBI calling her and saying we are going to step in and seize your computer. It was the bright and experienced Hillary recognizing that her computer would be examined and taking action to make sure her private files, and perhaps incriminating files too, did not get found on her computer. She acted preemptively and legally. She is a lawyer after all. Cohen on the other hand might have done the same. He is a lawyer too. He knew, or should have known, that the opportunity window to legally get rid of incriminating information is brief. But he did not act. He had plenty of warning that he might come under close scrutiny. But he wasn't the shrewd actor Hillary was. Cohen is not as capable and as knowledgeable as Hillary. I think it is no more complicated than that.
Fair and reasonable enough.

When Hillary's close friend of many years and personal attorney, Vince Foster, committed suicide, she had the keys to his office. Their friendship went back many years. She had the presence of mind and good sense to go to his office as soon as she heard of his death and remove her personal files. If this were to happen to me, or to you, and we had the opportunity, I hope we would do the same.

It is wrong to impugn someone for exercising good judgement. We say that if a person has nothing to hide then there is nothing to worry about. But in the political world that is a childish and naive attitude.
I agree that risk management does make sense, especially in today's political climate.

I noticed throughout your narrative that there were assumptions being made that may be true but can just as likely, perhaps even more likely, be untrue. Let us assume nothing, take facts as they are and follow them wherever they may lead.
Some assumptions I've made were explicit, some were implied and derived. Some speculation I make is based on filling the missing piece by weighting the information I do have and the interests of the parties concerned, as well as considering perceived character traits.

I did not assume Mr. Trump was a crook. I knew very little about him. But as I observed him campaigning I took it upon myself to learn. As I learned the facts, it was clear to me that he had been involved in money laundering and, almost as certainly, tax evasion.
Trump is heavily involved in many businesses and real estate. Developed real estate generates massive depreciation deductions relative to income. This "tax loss" can usually be used to offset other business income. When it comes time to sell a depreciated property, the typical strategy when faced with a large capital gain is to employ what is called a 1031 like kind tax deferred exchange. In addition, with Trump's many business ventures, there would be no shortage of deductions to offset income with. Thus Trump could be experiencing positive cash flow, but still have no tax liability. Trump's reluctance to release tax returns may simply be related to keeping inportant information away from his competitors.

What person who gains money illegally reports it faithfully on his tax returns?
Trump has actually admitted to obtaining money and other benefits by using bankruptcy laws to his advantage and through political favors. He has publically admitted these things and bragged about the great return on investment he gets for buying off politicians.

And when I observed him to suffer from sever narcissism, I then had the answer to an obvious question. Why would anyone who has involved themselves with illegal activity intentionally call attention to themselves by running for President of the United States?
Trump negotiated debt restructuring with experienced bankers. The reduced debt that Trump owed as a result of several bankruptcies and debt reduction or favorable term changes ultimately increased his equity. No laws were violated. Questionable business practices and ethics questions? Yes, you have him there.

Also, it soon became clear that the probability of his not knowing that the Russians were heavily involved in trying to influence the election was virtually zero.
It is a dangerous slope if not cliff you are walking close to here. Putin has said he was not even aware of when Trump or his associates were in Russia. Putin has offered Mueller access to accused Russians of influencing our elections. Mueller knows Putin is dangerous to his investigation because all Putin has to do is give out names, events, companies, money spent on influence on behalf of the Democrats and Muellers credibility goes to shit and the Democratic Party takes a major hit. Think of it logically: If the Russian's really intended to influence US elections through Trump, would this be the first time in their history of doing so? What US political party has shared parallel ideologies, to a certain extent, for many decades? The Russians and the Democratic Party have been associated with the labor unions for almost a hundred years.

Polls showing that Congressional approval ratings have been usually under twenty percent for a long rime, that the majority feel the US is headed in the wrong direction, and that the Government passes laws against their interests such as loss of privacy, unreasonable increased corporate legal protections, and disminished rights shows most people recognize there is a problem is Washington. Trump, a career businessman, not a politician, has set out to reduce this disfunction. Those corrupt and or underperforming politicians are fighting back through the media and through underhanded methods such as false accusations and investigations. The convictions obtained so far are tainted because leadership in the FBI is not clean for reasons mentioned in earlier posts in this thread.

Furthermore after he was caught lying about the nature of the trump tower meeting it was a virtual certainty he knew of it's true nature. Soon it became equally clear that he had advance knowledge of the meeting, and that he was guilty of the worst imaginable violations of U.S. election law. No person, knowing the facts as they have evolved can reasonably claim him to be innocent; yet he is not yet convicted. He will eventually be of course, unless Mr. Pence decides to Pardon him.
Not following you here. Please be more specific.

When he jerked Brennan's security clearance, not for cause but for personal animosity toward him, I knew that marked the beginning of the end for Trump. Just as the brilliant Nixon was driven to do horrible things by his paranoia, Mr. Trump is driven to do horrible things by his narcissism.
Security clearances are not needed post employment except for certain Government employment reasons. Security clearances should be routinely withdrawn after termination, regardless of political affiliation. Since this sounds like a change in the status quo, a logical question is why were these security holes left open in the first place? Another reasonable question is why Brennan and the media so desprately trying to keep his security clearence?

Mr. Trump's rhetoric is intended to reinforce his followers fears. desires and false beliefs.When someone such as the charismatic, dishonest and bungling, Mr. Trump arrives on the political scene his sincere and altruistic followers believe he speaks the truth. He appears to be a wise and sympathetic leader. He is cleverly manipulating his followers so that he can gain their approval his narcissism causes him to crave. He is not who they think he is. He is instead a charismatic, confident con artist and criminal capable, without remorse, of ruining the lives of those who trust in him. His decisions are bad ones based on lies.
Trump has a large group of people who believe in him because they know there is a problem in the United States. We see the media elevate dysfunctional behavior, criticize church going, promote divisions among groups, devote significant programming time to anti-American rhetoric, and mischaracterize, spin, or outright lie in order to fit their narrative and agenda. The question is why are they doing this? Is this Russian influence at work? Is it entrenched Radical Leftist's that put power above all else? As in power over people?

Once those around him recognize his deficiencies, they ignore him when they can and humor him when hey can't. He surrounds himself with flatterers, loyalty being the chief criterion for selection.
Trump certainly has his issues. He also has world class skills that few who are not top business leaders will understand. Even many business leaders do not understand why he says and does some things the way he does. Trump is a high performance, get things done kind of person. Few can keep up with him. Trump has shown he can stand the heat and will gets things done to improves the lives of Americans. No wonder the Radical Left wants to get rid of him.

Nevertheless, many in his administration are competent. They are able to limit and ameliorate the extent of the disasters his decisions cause. The inertia of our government is enough to keep the Ship of State from capsizing. Then too, there are those who support him who understand full well his illness, his methods, and his limitations. They support him for purely selfish reasons.
You have it backwards: Trump is supported by those who put their community ahead of themselves. We believe in the historical ideals of ou country. We believe in sharing our ideas and hard work. We believe in honesty and integrity. We build people up. The Radical Left tears things down. From statues, free speech on campuses and social media, business boycotts over picture taking with a Conservative, to Antifa violence and media intimidation.

There is a clear choice which path in politics is constructive and which one is destructive.

Please choose wisely.
More...

Total double standard and unequal justice under the law between Dems and Repubs. The soft coup must be unraveled postehaste.

Buy1Sell2 · Aug 22, 2018

vanzandt said:
Holy sh*t.... Lanny Davis is a former adviser/attorney to Bill Clinton and now he's speaking for Cohen and brokering a deal with Mueller to tell all about Trump?!

Man... the Clinton machine just never dies....
.....Oh to be a fly on the wall in some of these goings on. Damn.
More...

Lanny Davis is not a serious lawyer.

Buy1Sell2 · Aug 22, 2018

There can only be one reason that the soft coup has not been completely torn down yet------Jeff Sessions is part of The Swamp.

piezoe · Aug 22, 2018

maximumpossiblesuffering said:
Reply to your post is inline below:

"piezoe, post: 4713917, member: 45984"]I like the way you are at least attempting to think and not just parroting some talk radio line as we sometimes see here. But let's take this one sentence in your comments. This one, from the above quote.

"Hilary who [was] under Federal "investigation" by apparently giving her a weeks notice that her computer was going to be looked at. Low and behold, some files had gone missing. Trump's lawyer's office got raided with no notice."

You have assumed something that I would guess can not be supported by fact. Namely, you seem to be suggesting that Hillary was tipped off that her computer was going to be looked at.
Although I vaguely recall some talk show comment on this a long time ago, the basis for the comment was a conversation I had today with someone I met for the first time. Although this person spoke authoratively about Hillary being tipped off by the FBI, he was likely parroting something he heard. Like me, apparently, in my previous Hilary comment.

Well, that is correct. But what was the form of the tip off. It surely wasn't someone from the FBI calling her and saying we are going to step in and seize your computer. It was the bright and experienced Hillary recognizing that her computer would be examined and taking action to make sure her private files, and perhaps incriminating files too, did not get found on her computer. She acted preemptively and legally. She is a lawyer after all. Cohen on the other hand might have done the same. He is a lawyer too. He knew, or should have known, that the opportunity window to legally get rid of incriminating information is brief. But he did not act. He had plenty of warning that he might come under close scrutiny. But he wasn't the shrewd actor Hillary was. Cohen is not as capable and as knowledgeable as Hillary. I think it is no more complicated than that.
Fair and reasonable enough.

When Hillary's close friend of many years and personal attorney, Vince Foster, committed suicide, she had the keys to his office. Their friendship went back many years. She had the presence of mind and good sense to go to his office as soon as she heard of his death and remove her personal files. If this were to happen to me, or to you, and we had the opportunity, I hope we would do the same.

It is wrong to impugn someone for exercising good judgement. We say that if a person has nothing to hide then there is nothing to worry about. But in the political world that is a childish and naive attitude.
I agree that risk management does make sense, especially in today's political climate.

I noticed throughout your narrative that there were assumptions being made that may be true but can just as likely, perhaps even more likely, be untrue. Let us assume nothing, take facts as they are and follow them wherever they may lead.
Some assumptions I've made were explicit, some were implied and derived. Some speculation I make is based on filling the missing piece by weighting the information I do have and the interests of the parties concerned, as well as considering perceived character traits.

I did not assume Mr. Trump was a crook. I knew very little about him. But as I observed him campaigning I took it upon myself to learn. As I learned the facts, it was clear to me that he had been involved in money laundering and, almost as certainly, tax evasion.
Trump is heavily involved in many businesses and real estate. Developed real estate generates massive depreciation deductions relative to income. This "tax loss" can usually be used to offset other business income. When it comes time to sell a depreciated property, the typical strategy when faced with a large capital gain is to employ what is called a 1031 like kind tax deferred exchange. In addition, with Trump's many business ventures, there would be no shortage of deductions to offset income with. Thus Trump could be experiencing positive cash flow, but still have no tax liability. Trump's reluctance to release tax returns may simply be related to keeping inportant information away from his competitors.

What person who gains money illegally reports it faithfully on his tax returns?
Trump has actually admitted to obtaining money and other benefits by using bankruptcy laws to his advantage and through political favors. He has publically admitted these things and bragged about the great return on investment he gets for buying off politicians.

And when I observed him to suffer from sever narcissism, I then had the answer to an obvious question. Why would anyone who has involved themselves with illegal activity intentionally call attention to themselves by running for President of the United States?
Trump negotiated debt restructuring with experienced bankers. The reduced debt that Trump owed as a result of several bankruptcies and debt reduction or favorable term changes ultimately increased his equity. No laws were violated. Questionable business practices and ethics questions? Yes, you have him there.

Also, it soon became clear that the probability of his not knowing that the Russians were heavily involved in trying to influence the election was virtually zero.
It is a dangerous slope if not cliff you are walking close to here. Putin has said he was not even aware of when Trump or his associates were in Russia. Putin has offered Mueller access to accused Russians of influencing our elections. Mueller knows Putin is dangerous to his investigation because all Putin has to do is give out names, events, companies, money spent on influence on behalf of the Democrats and Muellers credibility goes to shit and the Democratic Party takes a major hit. Think of it logically: If the Russian's really intended to influence US elections through Trump, would this be the first time in their history of doing so? What US political party has shared parallel ideologies, to a certain extent, for many decades? The Russians and the Democratic Party have been associated with the labor unions for almost a hundred years.

Polls showing that Congressional approval ratings have been usually under twenty percent for a long rime, that the majority feel the US is headed in the wrong direction, and that the Government passes laws against their interests such as loss of privacy, unreasonable increased corporate legal protections, and disminished rights shows most people recognize there is a problem is Washington. Trump, a career businessman, not a politician, has set out to reduce this disfunction. Those corrupt and or underperforming politicians are fighting back through the media and through underhanded methods such as false accusations and investigations. The convictions obtained so far are tainted because leadership in the FBI is not clean for reasons mentioned in earlier posts in this thread.

Furthermore after he was caught lying about the nature of the trump tower meeting it was a virtual certainty he knew of it's true nature. Soon it became equally clear that he had advance knowledge of the meeting, and that he was guilty of the worst imaginable violations of U.S. election law. No person, knowing the facts as they have evolved can reasonably claim him to be innocent; yet he is not yet convicted. He will eventually be of course, unless Mr. Pence decides to Pardon him.
Not following you here. Please be more specific.

When he jerked Brennan's security clearance, not for cause but for personal animosity toward him, I knew that marked the beginning of the end for Trump. Just as the brilliant Nixon was driven to do horrible things by his paranoia, Mr. Trump is driven to do horrible things by his narcissism.
Security clearances are not needed post employment except for certain Government employment reasons. Security clearances should be routinely withdrawn after termination, regardless of political affiliation. Since this sounds like a change in the status quo, a logical question is why were these security holes left open in the first place? Another reasonable question is why Brennan and the media so desprately trying to keep his security clearence?

Mr. Trump's rhetoric is intended to reinforce his followers fears. desires and false beliefs.When someone such as the charismatic, dishonest and bungling, Mr. Trump arrives on the political scene his sincere and altruistic followers believe he speaks the truth. He appears to be a wise and sympathetic leader. He is cleverly manipulating his followers so that he can gain their approval his narcissism causes him to crave. He is not who they think he is. He is instead a charismatic, confident con artist and criminal capable, without remorse, of ruining the lives of those who trust in him. His decisions are bad ones based on lies.
Trump has a large group of people who believe in him because they know there is a problem in the United States. We see the media elevate dysfunctional behavior, criticize church going, promote divisions among groups, devote significant programming time to anti-American rhetoric, and mischaracterize, spin, or outright lie in order to fit their narrative and agenda. The question is why are they doing this? Is this Russian influence at work? Is it entrenched Radical Leftist's that put power above all else? As in power over people?

Once those around him recognize his deficiencies, they ignore him when they can and humor him when hey can't. He surrounds himself with flatterers, loyalty being the chief criterion for selection.
Trump certainly has his issues. He also has world class skills that few who are not top business leaders will understand. Even many business leaders do not understand why he says and does some things the way he does. Trump is a high performance, get things done kind of person. Few can keep up with him. Trump has shown he can stand the heat and will gets things done to improves the lives of Americans. No wonder the Radical Left wants to get rid of him.

Nevertheless, many in his administration are competent. They are able to limit and ameliorate the extent of the disasters his decisions cause. The inertia of our government is enough to keep the Ship of State from capsizing. Then too, there are those who support him who understand full well his illness, his methods, and his limitations. They support him for purely selfish reasons.
You have it backwards: Trump is supported by those who put their community ahead of themselves. We believe in the historical ideals of ou country. We believe in sharing our ideas and hard work. We believe in honesty and integrity. We build people up. The Radical Left tears things down. From statues, free speech on campuses and social media, business boycotts over picture taking with a Conservative, to Antifa violence and media intimidation.

There is a clear choice which path in politics is constructive and which one is destructive.

Please choose wisely.
More...

This is a very nice window into the mind of a Trump supporter. I thank you for that. From it I also learned something that will soon be of value to me, the 1031 like kind tax deferred exchange. I suppose you may be a businessman, a real estate investor, an accountant or a CPA.

I am not going to comment on specifics other than to mention in passing that Putin's offer of access to accused Russian Officers was not genuine. It came with strings attached that he knew would be unacceptable to the Americans.

Buy1Sell2 · Aug 22, 2018

piezoe said:
This is a very nice window into the mind of a Trump supporter. I thank you for that. From it I also learned something that will soon be of value to me, the 1031 like kind tax deferred exchange. I suppose you may be a businessman, a real estate investor, an accountant or a CPA.

I am not going to comment on specifics other than to mention in passing that Putin's offer of access to accused Russian Officers was not genuine. It came with strings attached that he knew would be unacceptable to the Americans.
More...

Trump supporters are Pro Americans who view lower taxes and a growing economy as being desirable features. ----Your vitriol and condescension shine through in your postings.

exGOPer · Aug 22, 2018

Buy1Sell2 said:
Trump supporters are Pro Americans who view lower taxes and a growing economy as being desirable features. ----Your vitriol and condescension shine through in your postings.
More...

Exactly, Republicans gave Clinton a complete pass on Lewinsky even when the Whitewater investigation had nothing to do with it while the Clinton economy was booming.

Fucking hypocrites all of them.

exGOPer · Aug 22, 2018

Michael Cohen’s Guilty Plea Opens the Door to State Criminal Charges for Trump, His Company and His Kids
https://www.dcreport.org/2018/08/22...-can-go-after-trump-now-even-if-mueller-wont/

Slartibartfast · Aug 22, 2018