Do you have any references that mRNA vaxes create and T / B cell immunity? I only saw the non-neutralizing antibody against the spike protein idea, never the other. I'd like to see it if it exists.
‘Not even modestly good control’: Fauci says US Covid cases 16 times too high to end pandemic Until cases dip to 10,000 a day, we are still in full ‘pandemic mode’, infectious disease expert says https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/09/anthony-fauci-comments-covid-19-cases-high-control The US has far too many cases of the coronavirus to see an end to the pandemic, Dr Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told Axios in an interview published on Thursday. “The endgame is to suppress the virus,” Fauci said. “Right now, we’re still in pandemic mode, because we have 160,000 new infections a day.” The seven-day average of new cases declined slightly from the previous week, to 140,000 cases, although it’s possible reported case numbers are low given two holidays this week. Rates this high make it impossible to return to some semblance of normal life, Fauci said. “In a country of our size, you can’t be hanging around and having 100,000 infections a day. You’ve got to get well below 10,000 before you start feeling comfortable,” he said. This benchmark is a familiar one. In an August 2020 interview with the Journal of the American Medical Association, Fauci warned that cases needed to fall below 10,000 per day. At the time, they hovered around 50,000, before surging to a peak of almost 300,000 cases a day in January. In March of this year, Fauci cautioned against loosening restrictions before cases fell to 10,000, “and maybe even considerably less than that”. Even so, states forged ahead with reopening plans, which Fauci called “inexplicable”. Fauci continued pointing to 10,000 cases or less as a benchmark for ending the pandemic. Even in June, the lowest point of the pandemic, the lowest average in the US was more than 11,000 cases a day. Now, with the arrival of the highly transmissible Delta variant and the continued lack of precautions against the virus, cases have spiked in recent months. “That’s not even modestly good control,” Fauci told Axios, “which means it’s a public health threat.” Vaccines are still crucial to suppressing the virus, Fauci said. When a high proportion of the population is protected by vaccines, “you’ll still get some people getting infected, but you’re not going to have it as a public health threat.” At this time, however, just a little more than half the US population is fully vaccinated.
Unvaccinated Americans are 11 times more likely to die of Covid, the C.D.C. reports. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/health/unvaccinated-covid-19-deaths.html A day after President Biden issued broad vaccine mandates aimed at propelling American workers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus, federal health officials released a handful of studies highlighting how effective the shots are at preventing infections, hospitalizations and deaths — even while the highly contagious Delta variant has been dominant. Three studies that drew data from different U.S. regions evaluated the protective power of the vaccines. One looked at more than 600,000 virus cases in 13 states, representing about one quarter of the U.S. population, between April and July, and concluded that individuals who were not fully vaccinated were far more susceptible to infection and death from the virus. They were 4.5 times more likely than vaccinated individuals to become infected, 10 times more likely to be hospitalized, and 11 times more likely to die from the coronavirus, the study found. Vaccine protection against hospitalization and death remained strong even when the Delta variant was the dominant form of infection. But the vaccines’ effectiveness in preventing infection dropped from 91 percent to 78 percent, the study found. The studies underscore a series of similar findings in recent weeks. “As we have shown, study after study, vaccination works,” said Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, at a White House Covid briefing on Friday. As more and more Americans become vaccinated, experts always expected that immunized people would represent a greater percentage of hospitalized patients. “What I want to reiterate here is it’s still well over 90 percent of people who are in the hospital who are unvaccinated,” Dr. Walensky said. “We still have more than 10 times the number of people in the hospital who are unvaccinated, compared to vaccinated,” she added. Two other studies published on Friday detected waning protection from the vaccines among older adults. One study, conducted at five Veterans Affairs Medical Centers, found that protection against hospitalization declined with age, to 80 percent for those aged 66 and older, down from 95 percent for adults aged 18 to 64. A second study found vaccine effectiveness dropped off at age 75. The findings could help identify populations who may be in need of additional doses or booster shots. In August, the Food and Drug Administration authorized giving third doses of Pfizer-BioNTech’s and Moderna’s coronavirus vaccines for some people with weakened immune systems, including organ transplant patients. But officials have said there is insufficient data on whether the vaccines’ effectiveness declines over time to recommend boosters for healthy adults. The data also suggests that the Moderna vaccine may be slightly more effective at preventing infections and hospitalizations with the Delta variant, compared with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. Both of the mRNA vaccines had higher efficacy rates than the Johnson & Johnson shot, but the studies were not originally designed to evaluate the comparative effectiveness of different vaccinations. In the study of 33,000 medical encounters in nine states between June and August, the Moderna vaccine had an effectiveness rate of 92 percent against infection, compared with 77 percent for the Pfizer-BioNTech shot.
There are lots and lots of small studies that have looked into bone marrow and lymph nodes and shown both t and B cell formation post vaccination. However what we want is a large long term study which is not feasible considering we are maybe a year into the earliest vaccinations. The smaller studies do indicate t and B cell existence so that is good but no one can actually say that a two dose regimen 3-4 weeks apart will create a robust enough formulation for long term memory. This is why shots like Hep B are given over a long period, not for antibody build up but memory. This Dr, Monica Ghandi, is excellent from this side of things. The below link is to an article she wrote a week or so ago. In it is a massive amount of links and expert analysis on t and B cell development. https://leaps.org/amp/how-long-do-covid-antibodies-last-2654881722?__twitter_impression=true
This is all good information but I’m starting to get annoyed at the embargo on the release of data coming out to be timed with political purposes. All three studies released one day after Biden announced a new push on vaccinations is a little too coincidental for me. They need to start turning this stuff over as soon as they can.
Delta variant more deadly than first thought https://www.skynews.com.au/australi...hought/video/5c60b7bbcd48a04513c89ec12549694e New research is indicating the Delta variant is not only more contagious but more deadly as well. The report was published by one of the Nine papers on Tuesday morning which says the Burnet Institute and Doherty Institute are now adopting information out of Canada. The Canadian study is led by University of Toronto epidemiologists David Fisman and Ashleigh Tuite. It goes on to say individuals are twice as likely to end up in ICU and one and a half times more likely to die than the original Alpha variant. (Above url has video)
How the delta variant upended banks’ return-to-work plans https://www.americanbanker.com/list/how-the-delta-variant-upended-banks-return-to-work-plans As the delta variant of COVID-19 rips through the United States, many banks are scrambling to change the return-to-work plans that they had previously established. No standard industrywide approach has emerged. Some banks are requiring employees to be vaccinated in order to come back to the office; others are not. Policies on wearing masks and getting tested for COVID-19 run the gamut. The variety of approaches reflects a range of opinions in the C-suite. In a recent survey by PwC, 30% of corporate executives strongly agreed that their companies should mandate vaccines. But even if banks are not mandating vaccines, they are taking a number of other steps to make their offices safer for returning employees. Some banks, particularly those with large trading floors, are requiring weekly testing of their bankers and using contact tracing mobile apps in order to quickly isolate potential cases and reduce the spread of the virus. “They do want people to come back,” said Julien Courbe, chief client officer at PwC. What follows is a look at how 14 large and midsize banks are responding to the latest surge in COVID-19 cases. The banks are listed by asset size in descending order. (Article at above url provides an outline for each major bank.)
Study of Delta in a small confined population. Note the vaccinated fared much better against hospitalization and death. Delta variant outbreak infects highly vaccinated prison population, but few were hospitalized, CDC says https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/21/cdc...d-prison-population-but-few-hospitalized.html The coronavirus delta variant ripped through a federal prison in Texas over the summer, infecting both the unvaccinated and fully vaccinated populations but few were hospitalized, according to a CDC report. Among the 233 incarcerated people at the prison, which wasn’t named, 185, or 79%, were fully vaccinated against Covid19. From July through August, 172 incarcerated people, or 74% of the federal prison’s population, were infected with Covid, according to the CDC. The fast-spreading delta variant ripped through a federal prison in Texas over the summer, infecting both the unvaccinated and fully vaccinated populations, but few were hospitalized, according to a report published Tuesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Among the 233 incarcerated people at the prison, which wasn’t named, 185, or 79%, were fully vaccinated against Covid19, according to the new report, published in the agency’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. From July through August, 172 incarcerated people, or 74% of the federal prison’s population, were infected with Covid, according to the CDC. The delta variant hit the unvaccinated harder, the agency said, infecting 39 out of the 42 prisoners who hadn’t gotten the shots. That compares with the 129 infections out of 185 fully vaccinated people. Four people were hospitalized, three of whom were unvaccinated, and one person died, who was unvaccinated, according to the CDC. The agency said the report demonstrates the potential for delta variant outbreaks in congregate settings, including correctional and detention facilities, even among places and populations with high vaccination coverage. “Although attack rates, hospitalizations, and deaths were higher among unvaccinated than among vaccinated persons, duration of positive serial test results was similar for both groups,” the agency wrote in the report. Vaccinating most of the U.S. population remains critical as the shots are highly effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalizations and deaths, the agency said. The new report comes as federal health officials urge all Americans to get vaccinated and continue to wear masks indoors, especially in congregated settings, as the highly contagious delta variant spreads across the country. The U.S. still has a dangerously high number of cases. The nation is reporting an average of more than 138,900 cases per day as of Tuesday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. The country is reporting an average of more than 1,900 deaths per day, Johns Hopkins data shows. Earlier this month, President Joe Biden outlined a broad plan to boost Covid vaccination rates in the U.S., pressuring private employers to immunize their workforce as well as mandating the shots for federal employees, contractors and health-care workers. The plan includes offering booster shots of Pfizer’s and Moderna’s vaccines to the general population. A Food and Drug Administration advisory committee on Friday unanimously recommended Pfizer booster shots to people age 65 and older and other vulnerable Americans. A final decision from the agency is expected any day now.
so the double vaccinated fared a slight bit better than the non vaccinated. As the data comes out we are seeing the vaccinated outperforming by less and less to the point... where we can conclude the benefits may be temporary for some... maybe all.