Meditation and trading

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by felixbocharov, Apr 26, 2016.

  1. K-Pia

    K-Pia

    The world ain't only vertical, hierarchical.
    It's a lot horizontal too. Complex feedbacks.
    I still clean potentially unwanted files on my desktop,
    Even if I have the latest architecture available on the market.
    True. The method (Mathematical / Empirical intuition) is a must have.
    As so many things are in trading. We can build algorithm, program.
    But we can creat programmers, mathematicians, traders ...
    And we can't say that the body is inferior to the mind.
    Well ... We can wish it is. Or think it is. But it isn't.
    Lol. Hierarchy goes away with meditation.
     
    #21     May 4, 2016
  2. Exercise does wonders too. I'm happy that I can still run long distance. Best high in the world
     
    #22     May 4, 2016
    ndtrader14a, slugar and K-Pia like this.
  3. rajesheck

    rajesheck

    First of all, thanks for your thread on meditation :)

    Though i am touching huge subjects, of high performance, I try my level best to put it as simple as possible.

    There are four broad levels of consciousness (listed below from low to high).

    1. Physical
    2. Emotional
    3. Mental
    4. Soul

    Meditation Vs Contemplation
    Meditation itself is a huge ocean like subject. Generally meditation is a 'passive' practice from spiritual perspective. Because basically what we do in meditation is calming the mind and wait and see if a contact is established with the Soul consciousness.

    On the other hand contemplation or creative imagination of spiritual techniques is considered as 'active' practice from the perspective of soul consciousness, because the one who is contemplating is believed to be the Soul itself.

    I have recently posted this thread which blends trading, EI, Karma Yoga, Ontology and spiritual contemplation in some gentle propositions, though i have not used there any terminologies of the respective subjects, and kept the content with simple plain language as much as possible.

    http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index...otional-intelligence-than-emotionless.299723/

    I have been coached professionally in subjects of Karma Yoga, Ontology and spiritual contemplation for the past many years. EI is a modern hybrid form of Karma Yoga, Ontology and Psychology.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
    #23     May 7, 2016
    Wingz likes this.
  4. felixbocharov,

    i found a post in Journals called "......think out loud" that i like

    if you don't object,
    i thought i would experiment in this post, with something similar...?
    [i can always start a new post, if you prefer]

    thanks,
    marc
    :cool:
     
    #24     May 10, 2016
  5. radex78

    radex78

    Maybe it's good if any trader they also trained to mediation, in my opinion mediation will making minds relax and calmly, and if in forex also trader they can relax and calm, hence will better to manage their money and making better analysis with patience
     
    #25     May 19, 2016
  6. wrbtrader

    wrbtrader

    I think people that use mediation to help with their trading are probably using it elsewhere in their personal or professional life.

    The first time I came across meditation, I was a teenager and playing sports, it was a requirement (lasted about 15 minutes) as part of the warm down routine.
     
    #26     May 20, 2016
  7. I am assuming that the primary purpose behind starting this thread is to see if meditation would help with trading or not.

    I ask you this first. If I tell you that in order to build your biceps you should purchase a 2000 page encyclopedia and carry it around every day and read it, would you do it? Sure, carrying back and forth a tome that heavy would exercise your biceps and you may gain an inch or more, depending on your body type and other factors, but is that really the best (or even a good) way to try and build your biceps? And isn't reading an encyclopedia meant to be rewarding in a different way?

    The same applies to meditation. You do not do meditation for 'peace' and 'calm' (that can particularly be summoned to assist your trading endeavors). 'Peace' and 'calm' are just incidental, and just happen when you do meditation. Just like you see your biceps growing as you spend more days lugging around your encyclopedia. Any worthy system of meditation would give in return something far deeper (and would in turn place monumental demands on you, then but that's a topic for another day). That something deeper once attained could even call you to question the very exercise of indulging in a zero sum game like trading. So, be doubly careful !

    So the question is what could one do to attain more favorable mindset that would increase the odds of trading success. By all means include meditation to your routine. But there's a lot more that can be done IMO that could be more immediate and direct.

    On the physical activity side, aerobic exercise is known to have near miraculous and immediate positive effects on both body and mind, so that's certainly worth considering. For me, it has been a panacea really.

    On the mental side of things, someone mentioned contemplation, and I can whole-heartedly recommend it. Just be sure to understand properly what it means, as there are a hundred different variants of it, and a lot of them peddle contemplation as some flavor of meditation itself (not that there's anything wrong with it per se). The contemplation I am talking about is of the Stoic variety, but not quite. Think of it as a form of self-analysis, or self-psychotherapy if you like, wherein you honestly and ruthlessly study, question, challenge, reflect on, analyze, and pick apart into pieces your emotions, thoughts, actions, their source(s) and their consequence(s). Play with it on a daily basis and see where it leads. To help with this, you can read some Stoic philosophers. There are also some excellent Psychotherapy books and case studies available that could help. This was quite a journey for me.

    Be warned though that all if this, including meditation, can and often does, bring up some problematic emotional issues to the fore, and therefore it is not recommended that you do all this on your own. Seek the help of a qualified mental health professional if you intend going down this road.

    I say all this as someone who has pursued the path of meditation for 10+ years now (which has also taken me down the other roads I mention above). It's been an interesting journey, and I recommend meditation to all, but don't go around doing it to just get a 'trading in the zone' mindset. If you want to get a 'trading in the zone' mindset just practice 'trading in the zone' mindset while trading. Possibly some of the more direct things mentioned above might help as well. Just don't go around reading an encyclopedia to build your biceps.
     
    #27     May 26, 2016
    Simples, SMA and helgen_1 like this.
  8. An interesting post, but perhaps you're overthinking it a bit. Just for the sake of argument, if someone wishes to try meditation to improve his trading, it may well have a hand in getting him there even though it is not, as you suggest, as direct a path as one can take. But then, who is to say that approaches need be sequential? One can engage in both direct and indirect means of achieving an end.

    And since the benefits of meditation tend to permeate into all facets of a person's life, the added stability and centeredness can only add to whatever activity the practitioner engages in. And so, even though a trader may take up meditation for the "wrong" reason, he may end up doing it for all the right reasons, including...enlightenment. :wtf:

    And now let's all take a few deep breaths and have a great long weekend:



    :)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2016
    #28     May 27, 2016
  9. wrbtrader

    wrbtrader

    Everybody is different in their mental and physical behavior while trading.

    I'll only talk about the physical aspect because the mental side is too complex and often results in debates but I do understand there's a connection between the mental with physical. Thus, if someone has any of the below issues...they need to see a doctor or professional that specializes in these types of stress related ailments.

    Some people actually have a physical change in their body while trading such as sweating, increased blood pressure, increased heart rate, uneasy stomach, headaches, back problems, loss of appetite, increased appetite and so on. Then when their trading day completes...the physical changes slowly goes back to normal and then it starts all over again the next trading day.

    Those particular individuals need to do something soon (not later) to be able to manage that stress while trading because if they don't...trading will no longer be an option for them. Simply, the physical problems will transverse from short term into chronic and that will then have long term consequences or worst...cementing the connection between mental and physical.

    Stress can kill.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2016
    #29     May 28, 2016
  10. I remember when I first started trading...I was so stressed at the concept of my money fluctuating, or losing,...that I saw hair on my desk -- my hair was falling off :vomit::banghead:

    That was rather extreme, I have since become much more normal
     
    #30     May 28, 2016