Shoe: >I believe the fire is the punishment of >extermination, not torture. >Example: in our fair country we execute prisoners. >We do not torture them. OK, you pretty much just made my point with your "fair country" example. I ask you -- do we burn prisoners as a form of execution? Why not? If we did would it be considered torturous? JB
i was the one who pointed out the flaw with one of your citations (i notice you're now referring to 4 passages rather than 5 ). the others in matthew also have problems supporting your assertion, but there is no way to "prove" that to you unless you're willing to learn a scriptural language or two. and even if you did it would miss the point because even in the "originals" - there is plenty of room for interpretation. if the issue is whether or not there are scriptural references to what "hell" might be like, the answer is clearly yes. if the question is whether or not those references are definitively descriptive, the answer is equally clearly no. you're both right. so go out and buy each other a beer or three!
If I may suggest, instead of trying to prove the existence of God or Hell, I suggest you try to solve an _infinitely_ easier problem. Here it is: The Reimann Hypotheses All non-trivial zeros of the Zeta Function have real part 1/2. There you have it. And, as a bonus, there is a million dollar prize for proving this. So, for all the geniuses in this thread, just think, instead of using your obvious gift for proof on a message board, instead you could be using those genius arguments to prove something much simpler than the existence of God and Hell and making a decent wad of cash to go along with it. nitro
it would depend on how we did it. an auto da fe would certainly be torturous, an incinerator would be virtually instantaneous and not particularly torturous.
Thank you for saying that - now you understand why I emphasized the "carbon based" fire issue earlier in the thread. You are assuming, and this is a HUGE assumption, that the fire of hell is just like fire on this earth. And there is no reason to assume that. I'm not trying to be condescending, but elements in the spiritual are never exactly like their earthly counterparts. Being a materialist, I doubt you read about visions, dreams, NDE's, etc. very often. If you did, you would realize that elements in the spiritual realm do not correspond to life in these here five dimensions. Example: NDErs frequently talk of seeing a Jesus or some other archetypal figure filled with light. But this light is not like an earthly light. The can scarceley describe it. It often glows from within the being. There are many other examples: the bodies of of those in the spiritual realm and those in out of body experiences are similar to ours but certainly not the same in many ways. Again, I urge you to not force "fire" into an earthly definition.
Thats right.... run away little man You got PLAYED. We see your TRUE colors now. 100% hypocrite. If your going to claim that your a follower of Christ, you better learn to walk the talk brutha Jesus would have turned the other cheek instead of spewing forth vile like you did Like a fiddle little boy...like a fiddle peace axeman
Lol! Actually, I for one don't believe you can prove God. I believe in the end it always comes down to faith. My purpose in being on this thread is that materialists have enjoyed attempting to character assassinate God over the years by using a Dante-esque interpretation of the scriptures which I believe is completely unsubstantiated. If you'll read my posts I've never tried to prove God. I definitely try to show that there is evidence for Him and for the supernatural, but I don't for a minute think that I can prove it. I just want to be clear...
I have provided significant support. I have shown many verses in New and Old Testament that show that the non-believer is destroyed. Here are some more verses if you will not accept all the ones I have posted previously for some reason: "...and they shall pay the penalty of eternal destruction." (II Thess 1:9) "What if God...endured with much patience vessels of destruction?" (Rom 9:22) "...whose end is destruction." (Phil 3:19) "..the way is broad that leads to destruction." (Matt 7:13) "Destruction" in all these verses is the Greek word "apoloeia" which means "loss" or "ruin". So tell me again, why should I believe that non-believers are kept around for any length of time and tortured in a holding cell when the Bible imo clearly states that the wicked are destroyed? It is the idea of torture that has no biblical support...