Materialists

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ShoeshineBoy, May 5, 2004.

  1. my philosophy attempts to mesh the spiritual with the material--spiritual materialist . the belief is losely based on and builds upon teilhard . if anyone has interest, i have posted a link to more info on this unique philosopher.

    http://www.gaiamind.com/Teilhard.html


    furthermore, i found this article to be life changing on the spiritual level---

    http://www.techgnosis.com/whirlwinds.html

    enjoy


    surfer :)
     
    #131     May 5, 2004
  2. well it's going to have to get past my "crapola detector" first then we'll see about that life change :p
     
    #132     May 5, 2004
  3. you got a loving thing for the axemonkey dont ya wood (or shud i say GG) :p
     
    #133     May 5, 2004
  4. Just out of curiosity:

    if truth has no meaning and blackness is our fate, then

    1) why does debate matter except as a form of entertainment

    THE MOST convoluted MATHEMATICS CAN BE CONSIDERED ENTERTAINMENT. OPINIONS ARE EVERYWHERE.

    and

    2) how can the value or quality of an individual's life be measured by anything except the personal happiness they experience during their brief existence.

    OPINIONS.

    If there are no long term consequences or absolute truths that matter beyond the now, then passionate debate of anything is illogical except to the degree in which it gives satisfaction or fulfillment to the debater.


    EVERYTHING, NOTHING, AND ALL OTHER THINGS ARE RIGHT, WRONG, BOTH, AND EVERY OTHER POSSIBILITY.


    If all is meaningless, then the value of knowledge is ultimately meaningless. In a world where there is no ultimate truth, how can the unhappy wise man logically condemn the happy fool, or claim himself superior?

    By nihilism's own rationale, a bitter materialist is a failure at life, whereas a happy [fill in blank] is a success at life, regardless of who is right or wrong, because personal happiness is the only criteria that matters.

    DERRIDA, DELEUZE, FOUCAULT, BAUDRILLARD. READ SOME CONTEMPORARY PHILOSOPHIES.

    I therefore submit that atheists who condemn happy religious people are illogical hypocrites, and that miserable atheists, by their own criteria, are failures in the only respect that matters.

    AN UNDEREDUCATED GUESS.
     
    #134     May 5, 2004
  5. I have not read his post yet.

    I may reply. Darkhorse... you're forewarned.

    *Thunder cracks in the background*
     
    #135     May 5, 2004
  6. Turok

    Turok

    >when a non-religious politician makes a claim, people
    >normally looks past the statements made for public
    >consumption to find the "real" reason for the actions.
    >yet when a pope - a religious political leader - makes
    >a statement you take it at face value rather than as
    >pablum for the masses . if he said constantinople was
    >torched for jesus, then by golly, that's why it was torched!
    >it couldn't have been something as base as a power grab.

    Ya know Damir, this position of yours (above) just highlights a position of mine. You can say that the REAL reasons are always hidden and for the moment I'll let you get away with that *completely* unsupported assertion. IF true, why do you think that it is that theism is very, very often picked as the "veil" so to speak. Why is atheism NOT often picked as the "veil"?

    I present that theism is a GREAT tool for control and atheism is a LOUSY tool for control. Theism offers all sorts of risks and rewards (heaven/hell, virgins/anguish) and what does atheism offer? -- death. It's pretty hard to get atheists to strap on the suicide belt. As sad as it is, theism is even being used as a tool in our current war.

    JB
     
    #136     May 5, 2004
  7. DON'T WORRY LONGSHOT, I LOVE YOU TOO. THE NON-THEISTS SHOULD STICK TOGETHER. IF EVER WAR BREAKS OUT WE'LL NEED TO FIGHT ALONGSIDE EACH OTHER.
     
    #137     May 5, 2004
  8. OK, darkhorse (I may not like your name either) time to be called out... pls read on... my replies will be in italics.

    Quote from darkhorse:

    Just out of curiosity:

    If truth has no meaning and blackness is our fate, then

    1) why does debate matter except as a form of entertainment

    and

    2) how can the value or quality of an individual's life be measured by anything except the personal happiness they experience during their brief existence.

    OK, if you JUST give me a chance to ANSWER here!

    "Brief existence" is only a belief of some. Others, especially those who believe in Jesus Christ, fully expect to embrace an eternity where life still goes on known as... the afterlife. Am I scaring you yet?

    ___

    If there are no long term consequences or absolute truths that matter beyond the now, then passionate debate of anything is illogical except to the degree in which it gives satisfaction or fulfillment to the debater.

    And fulfillment of Baron as he gets income from advertisers by running ET.
    ___

    If all is meaningless, then the value of knowledge is ultimately meaningless. In a world where there is no ultimate truth, how can the unhappy wise man logically condemn the happy fool, or claim himself superior?

    Good question, erm, lemme get back to on that one...
    ___

    By nihilism's own rationale, a bitter materialist is a failure at life, whereas a happy [fill in blank] is a success at life, regardless of who is right or wrong, because personal happiness is the only criteria that matters.

    If... um... IF... hm... I lost my trend of thought.
    ___

    I therefore submit that atheists who condemn happy religious people are illogical hypocrites, and that miserable atheists, by their own criteria, are failures in the only respect that matters.

    Sorry, that statement was WAY beyond me.

    So, how'd I do, guys, for my first REAL debate on ET?

    to
     
    #138     May 5, 2004
  9. "i am the theist showing distrust of a religious person, but you, who claim to be an atheist, are simply assuming he's telling the truth becuase he's a religious person! because he "said so"."


    LOL..... lets see here... the POPE, the head of the CHURCH,
    commands his followers to abide by the BIBLE and take out
    the infidels.... all perfectly in line with what we would expect
    of religious fanatics who follow their "book" to the T, and I should
    reject face value? ? :p

    Yeah.... I believe the popes of the dark ages REALLY DID
    want to wipe out infidels. A real huge STRETCH... NOT! :D


    peace

    axeman


     
    #139     May 5, 2004


  10. That's it?

    If everything is "right, wrong, both, and every other possibility," why bother reading contemporary philosophy? Why not just read the label on a can of chili instead?

    Do you deny that if nothing awaits us, a life of tortored pain and a life of blissful serenity are equal and indistinguishable at their close, and that it doesn't really matter what happens to you, or your children, or your children's children, because all await the same oblivion in which none of their joy, none of their pain, ever mattered at all?

    Do you deny that if the above is true, that all sense of purpose, all truth, beauty, love and actions of posterity become meaningless and pointless at the very moment you die, and were thus meaningless and pointless the whole time you were alive?

    Do you deny that a consistent atheist must thus accept that personal fulfillment in the here and now can be the only logical standard for someone who believes in no ultimate purpose and no absolute truth?

    Do you deny that it is foolishness to construct a standard for yourself out of whole cloth, as Nietsche instructs, and then to criticize someone else who is "spiritual" for doing the same thing?

    Do you deny that your hypocrisy is actually greater than that of the man who believes in absolute truth and eternal purpose, because at least that man is acting in accord with his true beliefs, whereas you are actively denying yours (in pretending that you have purpose when you know you don't)?

    When you look at the logical conclusion of nothingness- immediate fulfillment the only end and the ultimate justification of all means- it proffers an uncanny similarity to the unthinking, unrestrained animal, don't you think? The beast in the forest who kills and ruts and takes, thinking only of the moment, stripped of all the false considerations of things like truth, beauty and love?

    Let the exotic philosophers be. Speak now, and strike down the God idiot in your own words.
     
    #140     May 6, 2004