Massive Slippage today for me with symbol EK

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Digs, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. Digs


    Today I placed an order to BUY at 31.01..

    Volume seamed HUGE 150k for every 2 min bars

    Order Entry software is IB/TWS price wnet thru 31.01 and I didnt get filled on 1000 shares until 31.40, slippage of 0.4.

    I was surprised, I check Market depth and the BID and ASK volumes didnt seam to represent the volume bars on the chart.
    Market Depth seamed light on all ECNs, and I would not have traded this stock on the Market depth view.

    Question : Can there be huge volume in a stock (NYSE) because the floor traders are doing it between themselves. This volume isnot going thru ECNS so the online traders are at a disadvantage as they dont get access to all the volume thats is trades, unlike the NASD. Thus slippage can be bad with IB as prices reps thru, but one cant trade it as there is no online shares to trade. Conclusion not all volume seen in your volume bars for NYSE is available to all for buying or selling.

  2. I looked at the chart and you got hit by a spike up to 31.55 and an immediate spike down. It came back down and slowed at 31.10. Maybe you could have got out there. Where did you get out? Nothing you could have done once you placed that market order. If you used a marketable limit order at the price you mentioned, you very likely would not have got a fill because the price moved away that fast, and you would simply cancel the order. But if you did get the fill you would be in control to sell when it spiked back down to 31.10 and slowed on it's way down. Maybe.
  3. I don't have my main program up but according to the data I'm looking at right now EK traded total volume of 26.4 million shares.

    NYSE:18.2 mil.
    OTC/Regionals: 8.2 mil.
    (Edit: just looked at ARCA web site: they traded 897,162 shares alone)

    Based on that you can see that there was plenty volume traded outside of the NYSE. Additionally, I was trading the stock today and can assure you that there was stock trading on ECN's all day long.

    When you say you put your order in at 31.01 and got filled at 31.4, I"m a bit lost. Do you mean you put in an order buy limit at 31.01 (in which case you would not have gotten filled at 31.4) or do you mean a market order when it printed 31.01? Reason I ask is because from what I remember EK never printed on NY at 31.01 (maybe you mean an otc print?). It was 31.00 then 31.4.

    Are you familiar with spreads on NY? Not spreads as in the bid offer spread, I mean when a spec. spreads the stock up and prints out? That's what happened to you there. Say you put mkt to buy when he printed 31.01 (.00). At that point there were already who knows how many orders in front of yours so you probably will be close to last in line. Then he spreads to 31.4-31.5 offer and you get your fill along with everyone else (unfortunately at what turned out to be the high of the day. :mad: ).

    With fast moving heavy volume listed equities you need to anticipate what the crowd is going to do or else you'll get filled after the crowd. And lord knows you don't want that (unless you're on the other side of the trade maybe:D ).

    To get back to your question: Yes there can be huge volume in a stock b/c floor traders are crossing trades. In this kind of case things were moving quickly, shorts scared covering, fundamentals buying, hedgies pushing...moving the stock up. They're not necessarily crossing between themselves but an auctioning going on with a lot of people just buying the crap out of it. You can be sure there were plenty of 25k-200k's market to buy.

    Not sure what you mean in terms of the online trader being at a disadvantage b/c they don't get access to all that volume. In my mind, sure you do: go buy or sell 100k out of your i.b. acct and you'll ge t filled. I promise, lol. Explain to me what you mean by that? You say you cant trade it b/c "there is no online shares to trade". 1) yes there were, there was volume on ecn's ALL DAY today in him. like I said b/4 8.2 mil. traded otc/regional, prob a couple mil on ecn's 2) so just route to nyse, there are plenty of shares there.

    Not advocating either the listed or naz system. Just trying to explain what the situation was in ek today.
    Did that whole bunch help to understand at all?
  4. had stops above $31 ? that was some ugly spike

    within 5 minutes EK was back under $31 ?

  5. Pretty sure that .55 did not trade on NY, but rather otc. So if he routed to ny he would not have gotten filled higher than 31.40.
  6. SteveD


    I don't understand how you were filled at a higher price than your bid. Was this market or limit order? Why didn't you buy it when CEO was being so bullish on CNBC at 27-28? That is what started the run.

  7. :confused:

    The stock never traded that low today.
    If you were referring to the "swing" move that started yesterday: The stock was up today on earnings, not b/c the CEO was bullish on tv.

    Just clarifying.
  8. Digs


    Thx for Comments
  9. SteveD


    EK opened at 29 on NYSE. At 31 it is "topped out" IMHO. I did not follow it but it closed at 27.46 so must have been some available on ECN between close and open price today.