Market's gotta be rigged

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Eliot Hosewater, Dec 26, 2007.

  1. Exactly, given enough time, a head and shoulders top can trade into a symmetrical triangle, or a bull pennant can trade into an ascending triangle and come back into the pattern and tag your stop before the pattern is resolved, which, by the way, could be in the other direction. Do you reverse? Oh sure, that could work but it probably won't. It'll break support, bounce back and tag your stop again before making a monster move, long after you've given up on the stock. What went wrong? You got wrecked by randomness. Patterns look great in hindsight.

     
    #51     Dec 28, 2007
  2. Gotta agree with you for the most part Nik. I started with $5000. However, there are definite advantages to having a larger account. When I started the market was behaving nicely so making money wasn't all that difficult. It would be brutal to trade <i>this</i> market with 5k. In this business size matters.

     
    #52     Dec 28, 2007
  3. this market imo is INCREDIBLY tradeable. stuff simply works.

    it's logical.

    the thing that has changed is that volatility has increased .

    how does a trader intelligently respond to increased volatility - smaller size, wider stops, wider targets
     
    #53     Dec 28, 2007
  4. It's a great market to trade if you're properly funded. Wide stops can easily get triggered with the large swings so a string of bad trades would tear you apart. One of the best ways of managing risk is trading small with a large account. If your overall assessment is correct but your timing is slightly off you can either absorb some drawdown or stop out and size up if the subsequent setup warrants such a move.

     
    #54     Dec 28, 2007
  5. Yeah, the problem is with the 'making a living' part of it. There are definitely noobs who figure 5K to 20K in year 1, 20K to 80K in year two, 80 to 320 in year three and then all you have to worry about is getting your copy of The Robb Report on time.

    I'm just dipping my foot in the serious intraday waters after years of longer term trading (booked off 3 months to watch every day). From what I can see, I'll need 12 months and maybe more before I can say I know what I'm doing (if not longer) and ramp up size. I have the capitalization to blow through a few $5k accounts trading 1 car or 100 lots or whatever.

    At this point my gold trading is paying for my day trading.

    : )
     
    #55     Dec 28, 2007
  6. "It's a great market to trade if you're properly funded. Wide stops can easily get triggered with the large swings so a string of bad trades would tear you apart. One of the best ways of managing risk is trading small with a large account. If your overall assessment is correct but your timing is slightly off you can either absorb some drawdown or stop out and size up if the subsequent setup warrants such a move."

    i simply disagree about the properly funded thing

    this is just a VERY tradeable market. despite the volatility, i am actually surprised at how well support and resistance hold. have the patience to wait for PRIMO setups, and then take them.

    the main difference in my trading this market - i generally don't trade and think in terms of so called "trend". however, in this market, i do and find "with the trend trades" offer very nice targets
     
    #56     Dec 28, 2007
  7. Look at all these comments about people requiring massive capital to trade futures successfully.

    This is solely the excuse of those failing to trade price action correctly and requiring the use of averaging down techniques aka adding to losers because they fail to buy the absolute low or fail to short the absolute high. Poor guys, they never heard of the term re-entry or/and small losses.

    Come on, give me a break.

    It's a trend, lack of price action reading skills lead to "fancy" money management or the illusion of security of over capitalization.

    Anek
     
    #57     Dec 29, 2007
  8. very astute comment A.

    The name of the game is efficient trading.
    ie small balances and low fees supporting large frequent intraday trades.

    regards
    f9
     
    #58     Dec 29, 2007
  9. How is that up trend treating you?

    (Sorry couldn't resist.)
     
    #59     Jan 2, 2008
  10. ET70424

    ET70424

    Well, just because you don't know what's going on does not mean it cannot possibly be rigged. Right? Hehe. I am not trying to defend whoever. I was just reacting to the first sentence [which was of course not directed at me personally] the like of which I see often.

    Actually, the key is not so much whether it is rigged or not, but more importantly whether one understands how things work.

    Even in a rigged situation. If you understand how things are rigged, then that understanding may well give you an advantage, possibly more so than a random, unpredictable situation.

    That's not to say that rigging is right, fair, moral or ethical. It is not!

    Nor does it mean that when you cannot change a rigged situation that frauds create and which you hate, yet you take advantage of your understanding of they rigged it even as you hate the rigging, you're necessarily acting unfairly, immorally or unethically.

    Regards.
     
    #60     Jan 2, 2008