market success = life success ???

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by marketsurfer, Feb 18, 2003.

  1. the state of mind required to constantly extract profits from the market seems to be diametrically opposed to "real" life. are you able to turn this 'state of mind" off when the market closes for day ? OR does it extract a toll on the other aspects of your life ??

    just wondering,

  2. do not have a life besides trading ....

    its sort of sad ...

    sometimes I wonder about it all myself too

    I think I am going outside now to play in the 2 feet of snow :)
  3. F. d'Anconia

    F. d'Anconia Guest

    to all of life's problems is readily found in sound trading practice.

    It is simply disattachment and nothing more.
    Pain in the markets is only as you perceive it, as is pain in life.
    Same for euphoria.................

    all attachment is suffering.
    and........everything is relative.

    Imagine if you will that the opposite side of every trade is someone out there (a real live person given to fear and greed just like you). And this zero sum game is going on between the two of you. When you short, they buy from you and when you buy, they sell to you. Prices move up and down and you are happy when they are sad and they are happy when you are sad.

    Now just imagine that you are a third person watching this ridiculous vascillation of emotion. You feel nothing because you aren't in the position of the other two. Yet nothing is different. Prices go up and prices go down. But the third person perceives things very differently, or rather doesn't perceive anything, either negative or positive about the price action.

    And (IMHO) I think that's essentially the trick. To really believe (and not just say) that no market is bad (just different). And also; in daytrading at least, to have no real bias past your immediate timeframe. To have a longer term bias is really just your ego attached to its opinion.

    regards, Surf.
  4. TGregg


    LMAO! That is absolutely hilarious. Did you even bother to open the book from where your handle came?

    I can imagine some other quotes like that:
    or how about:

    Or mebbe:
  5. One way to approach it practically is to say to yourself: 'Let me watch myself do this trade'. This puts you in a position of an observer and not that of a participant, or at least into a superposition of an observer and a participant. The more observer is in this superposition the better.
  6. Tgregg, I think you misunderstand his above post and you seem to unfortunately to be living in the illusion of attachment that the poster describes. Don't worry, though, most of the world does and they will continue to engage in all their wars, crusades, causes, etc.

    This is basic Zen he is talking about and saying everything is relative in no way advocates what you quoted; at least thats how I read it.
  7. TGregg


    You value your assumptions, and thus you find trouble seeing what is.

    Francisco d'Anconia is a character from Ayn Rand's book, Atlas Shrugged. In the book the character makes a long speech, and part of that speech argues quite strongly against the idea that "everything is relative" or (better stated) "There are no absolutes". (My favorite argument against nonabsolutes is "I'll put a bullet in your head and let's see if you are absolutely dead" :D ) Rand's philosophy (perfectly embodied in d'Anconia and a fundamental part of the novel) is called Objectivism and is very, very antiZen. Very. Diametrically opposed, even.

    For F. d'Anconia to say that "everything is relative" is a direct contradiction of what that character was. That would be the same as somebody with the handle of J. Carter (from well-known peacenik Jimmy Carter) saying it's high time to use nuclear weapons on everybody in sight. Or Alan Greenspan arguing for more debt. Or Popeye, giving his girl away to his worst enemy.

    It's not about Zen, or whether F. d'Anconia is right or wrong. It's about a contradiction.

    Edit: Forgot to add, it's also about the possiblity that F. d'Anconia choose his handle without an understanding of that character, and without the same belief that character has.
  8. "So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Aconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money?
  9. TGregg


    I never knew where the $ symbol came from until I read Rand.
  10. driving range....asked them to chill so I could hit 65 balls after a lesson .....they were not thrilled about it but never the less hung back and relaxed.....after 15 minutes a 60 or so yr. old dude walked up to me and said ...."those are the most well behaved kids ive seen in a long time" I responded "thanks for the kind words....those kids are all my wife and i care about"

    driving home I thought to myself........hanging with the kids every day.......thats what its all about
    #10     Feb 18, 2003