Market Maker and Super soes What a sh..

Discussion in 'Order Execution' started by spieler, May 7, 2002.

  1. spieler


    Today I bought 12000 MANU via island ( i only pay per ticket)
    at 8,93$ near the low of the day during the end of the second dip.

    Then the stock start to sky-rocket i placed a supersoes order for the 12000 shares at 9,11 ( inside market 9,13 vs 9,15 ) i had to wait 25 seconds to see only 2000 shares sold at 9,15, 9,14;9,13 and 9,12 and the rest of the order cancelled.
    What is strange is the delay and the fact i did not get the whole conterpart as the stock continued to goes up.
    So i sold the 10000 via island at 9,25 average.
    After that the stock goes till 9,75.

    My principal question : what about the delay with supersoes? i thought it was less than 1 sec ( not 17 sec like with the old SOES system or 27 sec via selecnet). With 1000 or 2000 i never had that kind of problems.
    Any ideas?
  2. mbg


    i believe if an ecn becomes best bid, then your supersoes order does nothing - you can't supersoes an ecn

    you're better off using an ecn like Arca or Redi to work your order - let the computer direct to all the market centers for you - just my opinion
  3. Perhaps the bid became lower than 9.11 leaving your 10,000 shares unfilled,since with supersoes you can't place orders in between the spread.You can only buy at the ask from a MM and sell at the bid to a MM,unless a supersoesable ECN is at the inside as well.
  4. spieler


    I know the rules of supersoes and i usually use ECN but in that case and quantities it was the only issue.
    perthaps after 25 sec the bis came under 9,11 for few seconds so i am ok for the cancellation.
    But why so much time to get a fill as MM were present and stay above my sell price during that time.

    MANU 9,8 now !!!!
  5. spieler


    ARCA or REDI why not but i have to pay per share fees ( with Ssoes only 0,9 cents per ticket )
  6. perhaps MM's were above your sell price the whole time but at the same time ECN's were always above the MM's buying at higher prices then your sell price were nonetheless not at the NBBO. As MBG stated, SOES orders are not executed unless MMs are at the inside price level.

    But considering the stock was moving higher rather than lower, it does seem very hard to believe that MM's were not stacking up at the inside bid all the way from 9.11 to 9.25 when you sold via ISLD. Not sure what could have happend there other than system failure.
  7. hans130


    Supersoes provides instant exections. There must be an ECN better then your price. There should be no delay in SS at all..

  8. spieler


    You mean that if there is an ECN at 10$bid for exemple and 10 MM at 9,99 bid ( so not inside market) my sell order ssoes at 9,99 will not be executed till the ECN is there?
  9. mbg


    correct - supersoes cannot go below the best bid, or above the best offer for that matter

    Use IB - no ecn fees
  10. spieler


    Ok thanks I did not catch this kinda things.
    I dont like IB soft and i only pay 9,95 $ per ticket no ECN charges ( 1$ island whatever the number of shares).
    #10     May 7, 2002