Market dropped 98 points below my stoploss before it filled. Pls Advise.

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by jyoke, Feb 8, 2025.

  1. volpri

    volpri

    Ok so locally stored until price level is reached. So how this this work for the OP 4 long contracts? Are you then saying once the move down started and his SL price level was made LOCALLY THEN and only then the broker fired the SL to the exchange and since by then things were in a velocity logic it was rejected. But if it was rejected then why did it get filled at a lower price.

    If it was not rejected when the broker sent it then it was now an accepted market order on the CME server and why didn't it get cancelled since market orders and small orders are canceled during a velocity logic event?

    That leaves us to think that after the velocity logic event the broker then PERHAPS entered the OP SL order again since it had been cancelled and since it was a limit SL order converted to a new market order he got executed at the lower market price??

    I gotta go. Heading to an RV show. Interesting conversation.
     
    #111     Feb 14, 2025
  2. Real Money

    Real Money

    VL.png

    Wow. This sh1t is like an automatic mini "trading halt". I can't imagine a more disruptive thing for the exchange to do (even if on minute timescales). Just going through this mentally, I can already see that if this does get triggered, there's gonna be a crazy and violent rapid increase in total order post/cancel rates, and even across multiple contracts, underlyings, exchanges...wow.
    https://www.cmegroup.com/education/demos-and-tutorials/understanding-velocity-logic.html
     
    #112     Feb 14, 2025
    ondafringe likes this.
  3. ondafringe

    ondafringe

    What happened to the OP is right there in the GPT breakdown I posted earlier.
     
    #113     Feb 14, 2025
    p0box4 likes this.
  4. Put this dead horse to bed already. Test it out next Sim session.
     
    #114     Feb 14, 2025
  5. p0box4

    p0box4

    No, the broker doesn't "fire" the stop. One price traded, or lower, than the price the stop was set at, the broker will send either market orders, for a regular stop order, or limit orders, for a stop limit, to the exchange.
     
    #115     Feb 14, 2025
  6. ondafringe

    ondafringe

    Right. It would be a fucking nightmare scenario for retail day traders... as it was for the OP. However, other than interest rate decisions, it's probably a rare occurrence during RTH, but if it happens to you, you're screwed. So you either accept the risk, or, like @p0box4 said, you never, ever have an open position going into any kind of news.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2025
    #116     Feb 14, 2025
  7. Businessman

    Businessman

    Out of interest how often does this Velocity Logic malarkey get triggered in the Stock Index Futures? Anyone know??

    You would think it gets triggered on CPI, NFP, FOMC days when there is a large price spike. Which is quite often.

    But no one has ever mentioned seeing it before, at least not on ET? Is it a new thing??
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2025
    #117     Feb 14, 2025
  8. Real Money

    Real Money

    From the CME site, they said it's a 1000ms lookback that's live during RTH. If the book gets swept too hard (check the site and GCC disclosures for specifics), they halt trading in the futures and options, pending a trading restart.

    Seems like it's designed to protect the futures/FOPs MMs (I know they aren't called that).

    Basically, this is the way CME quantitatively defines a 'disorderly market'. (Sweep our book inside 1 sec and you get a 'time-out' lol)
     
    #118     Feb 14, 2025
  9. volpri

    volpri

    OK
    Then why was it accepted and executed by the exchange if things were in an velocity event? It seems to me the broker fired the market OR limit order AFTER the event thus causing the OP loss. So he could be fulling his obligation to the trader but at no loss to the broker. Or the broker takes the opposite side clears out the order for the trader and makes money cause he the broker gets long at a discount price. The one getting screwed in this nightmare is the trader..not the broker or the exchange. Best to just hedge.
     
    #119     Feb 14, 2025
  10. mervyn

    mervyn

    if the broker takes another side of the trade, it becomes a trader, money at risk either way.
     
    #120     Feb 14, 2025