Managing Funds for a Living

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by paysense, May 18, 2007.

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  1. Here's a comparison of the R/R for each position, just in case you're interested.

    Covered Call

    Max Loss = 100%
    Max Gain = $402
    BP used = $1,267

    True risk with stops = ~$100
    Return on margin = 31.7%
    R/R = 4:1
     
    #221     Jun 13, 2007
  2. Diagonal

    Max loss = 100%
    Max return = $362
    BP used = $665

    True Risk = ~$100
    Return on Margin = 54%
    R/R = 3.6:1
     
    #222     Jun 13, 2007
  3. I know u were (jokin around).

    Last time PAAS made my list was 09-Sep-06.

    Thx for the input regarding margin requirement with spreads/collars(?).

    I'm trying to weigh risk/reward scenarios (like with the FOTM short index calls) - to optimally make gains desired vs risk.

    Personally I couldn't allocate a significant position to a call (PAAS) that overnight could gap down. I get enuf jolts just being in this. But I hear ya.

    In theory one could simply take a portfolio and find some decent plays that make 30% fairly easy (sell high-yielding calls 3-4 mo out) from now to Oct and do it again till Jan.

    This may seem easy, but probably a nightmare waiting to happen.
    gA
     
    #223     Jun 13, 2007
  4. I realize that this is the knee-jerk reaction, but it is actually less risky than the covered call. See the long OCT 20 calls have a delta of 91 and favorable gamma on an adverse move. That is, the long stock carries a delta of 100 so every dollar drop is a dollar loss. Conversely, a dollar drop only causes a little less than .90 loss on the OCT call. Consider also that a gap down will result in an IV jump of at least 500bp.

    So let's say you held 100 shares long and the stock gapped down $1.50; you'll have lost $150.

    OTOH the OCT call will likely only have dropped about $110. Additionally, it will lose money slower as the underlying continues to drop (resulting from the favorable gamma).

    Options traders must always use volatility because that is what makes them preferable to stock. It doesn't really matter what stock position somebody wants to take, you can almost always engineer an options position that will accomplish the goal better.
     
    #224     Jun 13, 2007
  5. #225     Jun 15, 2007
  6. So I guess you didn't take my advice on that PAAS trade?
     
    #226     Jun 15, 2007
  7. no CL...I passed on it and went with IOC. Unless things have drastically changed, the methods in place for almost 10 years will yield the predicable result (daytrading aside, lol) GaPs
     
    #227     Jun 15, 2007
  8. I'm sorry CL, I may have - seemed - to come off wrong (with regards to daytrading). That wasn't my intent. I wasn't referring to your trade or reactions to the Naked Option Story.

    I get it wrong - more than my share, but I stay within my longer-term parameters. So I will stick to what (I'm telling everybody) I know works.

    Unknown to perhaps many is that a trade or even a week of trades or even a few years do not tell the whole story of how a manager's (trader's) methods stack up.

    (Much) time will tell.

    Paysense

    Humor me...but if I had to do the spx/djx/qqq trade over - I'd a dunnit the same:)
     
    #228     Jun 15, 2007
  9. I just threw-up in my mouth.
     
    #229     Jun 15, 2007
  10. ...well Atticus it seems you are just throwing up (over and over) on yourself.

    If you posted the whole quote it'd say I didn't feel these would turn out 'so easy'.

    But for instance, ENCY is perhaps a fairly decent play. It is now trading near historical lows (pull up all data) and rates pretty well amongst it's peers - whose group is realtively very strong. Even trades 2.5M+ shares daily

    So you buy the stock at 4.1 and sell the Oct 5 calls at 1. But the July's are selling at .9!

    .9/4.1 = 22% not called
    1.8/4.1 = 44% in called

    Stop Loss target...unwind when stock reaches 3.2.

    Diversify beteen 3-4 industries/positions to do two or three times per year with large account - SEEMS - like easy money...but (like I said) probably not.

    Just to get you by...here are a bunch or

    famous sayings

    (that are easy to mock)

    from me so you can use them for your barf bag!

    ps

    good eatin'

    oh I'm sorry...it was empty?lol
     
    #230     Jun 15, 2007
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