lol, apex, lol. i have him on ignore, but boy i remember the crap he vomited. i thought everyone was predicting IB was going to try and steal Refco, i guess Man had the financials.
I posted the following at 2:19 am EST, Nov 10, 2005, on the thread âRefco Falloutâ. This is a lie. Jim Rogers and other depositors of funds totalling $1.1 billion, deposited into segregated futures accounts at Refco's regulated futures brokerage, allege they lost those funds due to embezzlement. "There's nothing to show who owes what to whom," said Michael Greenberger, a former official at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (see Trader5287's post in the âRefco Falloutâ thread, dated 9 Nov 2005, at 5:40 PM EST http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57333&perpage=6&pagenumber=42). They are seeking to recover it in bankruptcy court. I repeatedly brought this to Apex Capital's attention, yet he persists in contradicting it via this and other false claims. U.S. Bankruptcy law requires that all non-defaulting public customers share equally in any uncovered deficit arising in a clearing futures broker's pool of public customer segregated funds. The law prohibits any customer from receiving a bankruptcy preference or priority over other customers. I think that Jim Rogers, and the other jilted accountholders, may have the right to file a motion seeking that the $1.1 billion deficit be shared equally among all of Refco's public customers. I think they may have the right to argue that Refco's embezzlement unlawfully imposed a bankruptcy preference to their detriment. If such a motion is granted, then Rogers and the other losers would receive a partial recovery of cents on the dollar, but only because all other Refco public customers will also share equally in the same percentage loss. If such a motion were granted, public customers would recover less than half of their funds. If such a motion is filed, I would expect it to be kept secret, by filing it under seal, until such time as the Court can decide the motion. If the Court did not keep such a motion secret, until it is decided, then publicity would trigger a massive panic of the remaining customers, stampeding out of their Refco futures accounts, leaving nothing for Rogers and the other losers to share. Such a panic would defeat the very purpose of making the motion. Another peril is that some of the property or cash, in the pool of public customer segregated accounts, might be the proceeds from theft or embezzlement, which might have been transferred to the pool in order to conceal previous losses due to trading or embezzlement. This is a reasonable fear, given what is known about how Refco has done business for so many years. If such fears are true, then this might give rise to claims that stolen property be returned in full to its rightful owners, thus leaving the pool in deficit. Such a deficit would have to be shared equally by all public customers, as required by U.S. bankruptcy law, so that this is another way that current Refco futures account holders, and any firm accepting transfer of their accounts, might take a loss. Refco failed in its effort to sell the futures brokerage as an intact company, without including it in the overall Refco bankruptcy, because potential buyers were afraid that such a transaction would expose them to risks of litigation. I strongly suspect that they were afraid of exactly the sort of claims that I have just described. Refco has announced it is now adding its futures brokerage into its bankruptcy, in order to reduce the litigation risks faced by any buyer of its assets, or faced by any recipient of its transferred customer accounts. Refco does business with Apex Capital, formerly known on EliteTrader as the banned waggie945. Apex Capital has an extensive history of publicly making false and misleading statements, on ET, about Refco. Oldtrader, another ET member, has endorsed Apex Capital's false statements as truthful. Apex Capital falsely stated that it was safe to entrust funds to Refco entities, other than the one Refco entity which fraudulently concealed its related-party receivable owed it by the CEO now charged with criminal securities fraud. Apex Capital falsely asserted that the problem was confined to just that one entity. Apex Capital condemned those who contradicted his assurances, publicly attacking them as ignorant, irresponsible, mentally ill amateurs. We now know that thousands of customers lost their funds in various other Refco entities, which Apex Capital had stated were safe. Apex Capital specifically claimed that it was safe to entrust funds to the regulated Refco futures brokerage, because, he claimed, segregated customer funds are insured and guaranteed against broker bankruptcy. This was also a completely false claim, in that no such insurance or guarantee exists; and the CFTC and the exchanges have officially warned that no such insurance or guarantee exists. Apex Capital has never acknowledged the fact that he made any false claims or gave any questionable advice about Refco. Apex Capital is interfering with discussions between traders concerned about Refco and broader issues of brokerage account security. He used EliteTrader to circulate numerous false statements about other members engaged in internet discussion regarding Refco. He repeatedly threatened litigation. He requested that a discussion thread on EliteTrader, entitled "Refco Account Security", be deleted, and then that thread was closed by the website administrator, within a matter of days. He then made many irrelevant and false personal attacks in the thread entitled "Refco Fallout", thus provoking strongly worded disputes, which also led to that thread being closed by the website adminstrator. I persuaded the administrator to re-open that latter thread, but Apex Capital and Oldtrader have since filibustered and overwhelmed the thread with a flood of repetitive, dishonest, irrelevant personal attacks. The results are that few people are willing to read the thread or to participate in it, and its previously healthy and educational debates have been mostly paralyzed.
Perhaps, Ebo, but after I made that posting at 2:19 am EST last night, warning about hidden risks in the Refco futures accounts, Interactive Brokers withdrew its bid for the Refco futures accounts, and refuses to give a reason.
I take it that Man has to assume all those nasty class action lawsuits now? Court Approves Sale of Refco's Regulated Business to Man Financial 2005-11-10 21:03 ET - News Release NEW YORK, Nov. 10 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Refco Inc. (OTC: RFXCQ) said today it has received approval from the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for its sale of substantially all of the assets of Refco's regulated commodities futures business to Man Financial Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Man Group plc ("Man"), for $282 million in cash and approximately $41 million of assumed liabilities and other considerations. After a long session of bidding, Man Financial, Inc. was selected as the winning bidder, offering the highest and best bid for the assets of Refco's regulated commodities futures business. The level of interest expressed by all bidders was extremely high and tangible recognition of the value and strength of the Refco franchise. The sale represents approximately 40-percent premium over the net regulatory capital of the business. Under the terms of the sale, Refco will retain its net regulatory capital and other liquid assets for an aggregate value of approximately $1.25 billion. William Sexton, Refco's chief executive officer, said, "The sale provides the best possible outcome for Refco's employees, brokers, customers and creditors. Man Financial has expressed their high regard for Refco's people, products and services and looks forward to working with our employees to realize the potential that a combination of the businesses creates for global clients. This high regard was shared by each of the bidders who reviewed our company during this process." Information regarding the disposition of specific assets not included in today's auction will be communicated as it becomes available. For more information, visit http://www.refco.com . For access to Court documents, visit http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov (a PACER account is necessary to access the Court web site). Cautionary Note Regarding Forward-Looking Statements This press release contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of the 1995. In this press release, all statements other than statements of historical fact are forward looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties and actual results could differ. These forward-looking statements are based on assumptions that we have made in light of our experience and on our perceptions of historical events, current conditions, expected future developments and other factors we believe are appropriate under the circumstances. Although we believe that these forward-looking statements have a reasonable basis, you should be aware that numerous factors, including the outcome of the Audit Committee's investigation; our ability to obtain financing arrangement or alternatives; changes in domestic and international market conditions; competition; our ability to attract and retain customers; our relationships with introducing brokers; retention of our management team; our ability to manage our growth or integrate future acquisitions, our exposure to significant credit risks with respect to our customers, international operations and exchange membership requirements, the effectiveness of compliance and risk management methods, potential litigation or investigations, employee or introducing broker misconduct or errors, reputational harm, and changes in capital requirements, could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. Because of these factors, we caution that you should no place undue reliance on any of our forward-looking statements. Further, any forward-looking statement speaks only as of today. It is impossible for us to predict how new events or developments may affect us. The Company disclaims any intention or obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements, either to reflect new information or developments or for any other reason. SOURCE Refco Inc.
The intent of the sale is that such liabilities remain with Refco, to the greatest possible extent, rather than be transferred to Man. This is why the Refco futures broker was left intact as a business entity keeping its regulatory capital. Customer accounts and most other assets were transferred to Man, but not overall ownership of the Refco futures broker. This was done for the specific purpose of minimizing litigation risks to the buyer, because the bidders were unwilling to assume the risk of owning Refco futures as a business entity.
Apex Capital, Oldtrader, and DHOHHI have been harassing me, in other threads, by making an overwhelming number of postings containing repetitive, false, and off-topic personal attacks. Baron deleted many postings and closed both of those threads because of this behaviour, which violates EliteTrader policy. One of my main objections to this behaviour is that they knowingly make false statements, over and over and over again, about the contents of my own postings. They claim I say things that I never said, and they misquote me or play tricks to alter the meaning of my quotes. No matter how many times I prove that the statements are false, they just keep repeating them, and then making new false statements. I spent an enormous amounts of time denying their lies, over and over again, until other ET members made me realize that it is a waste of time, because of their deliberate and endless repetition of the same false statements. Anyone who wishes to verify that Apex and Co. are lying can do so by reading the threads entitled "Refco Account Security" and "Refco Fallout". I will also add, since it cannot be verified merely by reading threads, that Baron has assured me that Apex Capital's comment, re: censorship, is false.