And it's because we are, like at hiking, labeling turns to ID properly the type of trend we're in. Thus, when one enters into a new set of trend it means the first C-turn that began the process was part of it already, but we can't know this until we find a new ID of 'x'-turn. Therefore, when a trend set is over, a new Set A trend begins, whereas when a new trend set begins it's because the prior one kind is NOT over. It failed to complete. I see this now as : C-C-turn is IDd, we know a Set A has ended. Then next is an A-turn, we know now we're not in Set A, so maybe in B, C or D type. Next is B-turn so we know now when A-turn appeared it was in fact not part of a Set B of trend, but either C or D type. Then comes an A-turn and we now now the first C-turn (like all the next turns that came along) were part of a Set D of trend.
Well I've been since this morning 10am (at the moment it's 13pm) thinking and reading a lot on the use of Modrian/MR tables and I still don't get it clearly, although some things are beginning to be clearer. It's going better I can feel it. I'll take a break on this subject, will do a log (try to apply the poor quality of comprehension I have about turns and trend types for now), post my chart, then will rest a bit and eat something, then i'll read my printed "getting my butt handed" only-jack-comments condensed thread and search for litterature about the Modrian/MR use, and I'll do a summary of what I have in mind. Best day to you
Except in ‘starting anywhere’ a c-turn completes a prior trend via c-c, a-c, b-c,..b-c. The trends progress sequentially. A failure to ID a c-turn in the Modrain is just that - a failure to ID a c-turn. We are still in Set A but as an a-turn in your c-c example. What’s the next test that comes after the MT test? ... then what comes after that?
Along my path, even more since "I'm with you", I've been used to feel the kind of "this sentence makes a difference and is building something strong towards differeciation so towards clarity, but I can't express it clearly with words nor can't I embody the comprehension yet, but I feel it's close". The quoted is one of those sentences From where I am now, I'd say then the next test after MT is the MR. Even though this may be true, I don't get why yet. And then I'd say what comes after that is the ID of the turn A, B, C and trend type, either A, B, C or D.
The market structure is composed of the pattern. The pattern has moves. The moves progress in a sequence or they fail to do so. The Modrian tests if there is a c-turn that completes the leg. The MR tests if the turn is a reversal or hold-thru by it's result. Just as in the VTP with a test that yields True or False, the test itself completes something so that one can advance by going to _____.
I'm happy cause since a bit now I had not faced any (aware) issue in the VTP/EE labeling. It's the occasion to refine some things. On the yellow bar with the red flag, I find myself unable to label it. Let's start from the beginning of that trend segment : 11:00 : due to a prior PP4, this bar is P1ass, BM is short, no trendline yet built. 11:05 : still no trendline built, repeat BM short, volume is DEC so the OOE progresses and we get T1. 11:10 : short TL appears, volume is DEC so repeat T1. 11:15 : OB with close inside prior TL, volume is DEC so T1/P2 in VTP and the trend is still progressing. A band passes. 11:20 : Volume is INC, we do RevChron : as it's a peak it cannot be a T1 and it's a peak under P1 so it's a repeat P2. 11:25 : WAIT after degap 11:30 : Volume is INC, and in analogy with 11:20's bar, it's a third P2. There is no acceleration so it's not a PP1a. 11:35 : volume is DEC and above T1 so it's not P2, neither T1 nor P1 so it's a T2P. B-band passes. 11:40 : here is the trouble; volume is DEC so in RevChron it can't be P2 neither P1. After P2 onward, T1 is killed. Plus, the condition to get a repeat T2P is a greater volume compared to prior T2P. It's not the case. Therefore, it coud be a T2F. BUT, in this case we're in, volume is under T1 and thus T2F is killed. So it's not T2F. What about P3P and P3F ? They are both after T2F. The only thing I would see would be an Ab LVBO EE. BUT, we're in B-band of bands, and the major clue to get it with EE is to know that there are only the EE of that band that can appear in any given band. So, I'm blocked here. Wondering what to explore to get this clear. For not staying here in the log, I'll ignore this problem for now and consider 11:45 bar as a BO,T1 and assign a P1 to it and keep on going onward from here. EDIT : the only solution I see at the moment would be that I did not draw the tape correctly from the beginning : as you can see between 11:05 and 11:15 I've made two tapes. One corssing the OB and making the next bar have its close crossing the TL and making a BO,T1, which would cancel the problem that comes after. The other tape built also crosses the OB but adapts to the top of next bar and makes the problem surge after. Even if the truth is that the tape I chose firstly (the crossing-adapting one) is wrong and one is, in this case, to build a tape through OB making close of bar 11:20 out of the TL, I'm still wondering what would be this 11:40 bar if my choosen tape was correct.
This produces in my mind deeper thinking. Thank you very much. I'll have to think about this. I've never felt so clearly how questions from you stimulates way more the deductive process than answers would. Thank you very much. Struggling hard at the moment, and it's at the same time very good.
11:20 bar, check your PP! Table, an internal does not kill PP1a. Even though that would cause a cascade, let’s say the original ID is correct and you are at your sticking point. That bar is in the OOE as a T2F. The trend is in it’s third move on the way to P3P or P3F, a hvbo or a lvbo both a class of ftt. T2F’s when present initiate the C-band so you deduced that we are beyond the A-band EE’s. T2F’s are like T1’s prior to a BO,T1 in that the trough of decreasing vol can occur on bar.0. An EE is always checked for on any bar as a something that takes precedence. T2F’s when present also initiate an n+1 test event. But we are at an n bar. What does n-1, n, n+1 stand for in the present moment? What is the next band that contains an EE that fulfills vol < T1? As one excludes what it cannot be, all that remains is what it must be.
I saw a NotPP1a being as although there are three P2s in a row, there is no acceleration, and both PP! sheet and the litterature I have about it says it needs acceleration to see a PP1a :/