Make $ w/ $2,000?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by jasrlew, Jul 23, 2003.

  1. bubba7

    bubba7

    I read your post and tried to figure out where you are.
    I know you do not trade. Maybe you have some money and I bet you have a job.

    Personally, as I see it, everyone starts in the same place.

    Ground zero.

    I went back there to take a look. 1957.

    I was given sound advice. It was to read Magee.

    I put 300 dollars in a Merrill, Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Bean account. I added 50% of my salary weekly for a while. (75 dollars weekly for the first few months until my first raise)

    I made 10% per turn on stocks. I turn kept getting the turn to be shorter starting at less than a month at the beginning. I stopped shortening at about 8 business days.

    7 out of 8 trades worked; when a trade wasn't, I saved time and left early. I did not buy stocks that were not going up when I bought them.

    Because of the times I had to buy the WSJ and plot by hand in pencil. I used the P, V relation to do stuff. (I am an engineer type). I had to spend 30 minutes a day to do what I did besides rereading. This did not cut into my daily job.

    I doubled every 8 trades (one flat exit and a little over 10% on the other 7).

    1960 190 SL in copenhagen
    quit IBM 1962
    1962 sloop for four (25,000); used stock for 100% collateral on loan.
    1964 Paid off loan and had 25,000 in stock left over.
    Did consulting in NYC $100/hr portal to portal out of Greenwich Conn. Institutional investment white papers in: paper, textiles, pharm, and machine tools. I traded only industries that sold to industries because of high sector betas. I retained amateur status as investor.

    Today it is easier. Before minis I used to have people do 1 DJ industrial contract (DJXX) They spent 30 min per day to do one turn and then quit. Profit was 300 dollars a day (10pts). Without compounding the annual ROI on that is 250 times larger.

    You go to more than 1 contract and top out at 5 after a while (two months). Typical people doing it were carpenters and topless dancers; engineers and architects. It did not cut into their daily jobs.

    This post tells you one thing. You are not asking the right questions.
     
    #71     Jul 23, 2003
  2. Well Jack, I guess since you are here you might as well ask the right questions and then answer them for us. You've managed to confuse me yet again. :)
     
    #72     Jul 23, 2003
  3. Funny how some things never change. I took on odd carpentry jobs to help me through my learning curve, but I would never have made it without the additional income from my wife's topless dancing.
     
    #73     Jul 23, 2003
  4. bubba7

    bubba7


    LOL thanks for reading my post. I enjoyed looking at her calendar proofs just like anyone else would have.

    In AZ in the winter, most outdoors workers would like to postpone starting for a couple of hours.
     
    #74     Jul 23, 2003
  5. bubba7

    bubba7

    Sorry about my poor post.

    It looks like most people want to just answer his question.

    as you could see, I thought he wanted to get on with making money.

    The topic of making money has a few questions, when answered, usually make people rich.

    Put 2000 dollars towork for 8 stock trades (@ 10%each, hold for 6-8 days) Then you have 4000 dollars. And if you add to it some saved money for next 12 weeks you might be to 10,000. by the end of 16 trades (2 doublings)

    Four quarters takes you through the following:
    now 2000
    1 Q 4,000
    2 Q 10,000
    3 Q 20,000
    1year 40,000

    The Q NOW is how does he learn to make money this way?

    The best way is to do stock cycles cause they are slow steady things as you learn.

    A second alternative is to learn to trade futures indexes.

    The chart for futures is 50x the stock one above.

    Learning is the question.

    It is my belief that you make money from day 1 using a very low risk method that makes money every day.

    The question for him is to choose which methods appeal to him and narrow the choice down to one.

    After than he just goes at it.

    You did not choose a method as yet. Nor did you collect a few to choose from.

    If I were him and I wanted to rapidly get off the ground I would not have gone as slowly as I did. At the time I started, making 10% every 6 to 8 days surprised my broker. 1957 was different than today.

    I track a set of stocks I do not trade. I can't trade low priced stocks because of the sheer volume relative to the day's volume. There aren't enough shares for my money.

    But I do have two low price indicator stocks that move in opposite directions. I use them as weather vanes for the market and the contrarian to the market. They also compress time by a factor of 5. so they are lively indicators.

    If i weren't constrained by the funds I have and I were like the thread originator, I would use these kinds of stocks.

    One was up 4.37% and the other was down 5.75%. This kind of daily return changes the learning process quite a bit. This set of stocks turns a year into a quarter.

    Thus, that is the second question. What stocks do you trade with for the method you choose?

    If you want to make money faster than stocks make it, you turn to other markets. Stock markets are big and slow.

    Futures indexes markets are small and slow. But they are leveraged so you can get the illusion of speed. It is not an illusion check book wise.

    I read the threads and the posts. So do you. I do not start them; the best I could do is comment in some.

    People starting out do not have all the baggage that loosers and marginal traders have. I see most people want to jump right into the trading and investing. I jumped in. I bought stocks for years. It was simple according to Magee 4th edition.

    Choose a method. Choose the stocks (indexes) that fit the method.

    The last question is: How do I always make money and keep making more and more?

    You know my answer to that. Go plateau by plateau. Profits prove that you know each successive plateau by heart and then you are allowed to go on to the next.

    I trade seamlessly all the time.

    Hey. What does a question like: "Can I trade with 2000 dollars?" mean.

    Lets say I dumped 100,000 shares of GZTC one day at 28 to 29 bucks each. Do I ask the question: can I trade with that money? Yes I ask and what is the answer? The answer happens to be no. I had created a problem riding a trend from 11 on up. I definitely needed to break that down into smaller piles. Ten piles would get me down to a quarter million each.

    If people do not get the questions straight they aren't going anywhere.

    Have you ever wondered why the mutual fund people screw it up all the time?

    People, first of all, have to get the questions straight.

    Here in this post I point out that the thread originator could run his money in stocks today (2003) at 4 to 5% a day, either way, every day. He needs to jack up his capital and put a method he can drive under it, load up with the right stuff (equites and/or indexes) and hit the road for a couple of years.
     
    #75     Jul 23, 2003
  6. Jack,
    What methods do you trade stocks by to double your money every 8 days? (If I understand correctly). I don't suppose you'd be game to post a screen shot of a brokerage statement, would you?
     
    #76     Jul 24, 2003
  7. 2k just aint enuf

    dealer shows a 6, u have 2 aces

    what would you do next? cant split the aces cause u dont have enuf money to split the pair.

    result: u pull 2 face cards
    :( :mad:

     
    #77     Jul 24, 2003
  8. from 25k into 250k doable

    2k into 25k forget about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #78     Jul 24, 2003
  9. bubba7

    bubba7

    1. most trades I do take 6-8 days per turn. A turn is to enter and then exit 6 to 8 days later. I shoot for 10% profit per trade or turn.
    2. compounding this means that it takes 8 cycles or turns to double.

    3. I go for doing 50 turns or cycles every three years.

    You read somehow that I double my money every 8 days trading stocks.

    Eghet cy6cles of 8 days each is 64 days to double on stocks. Trading futures indexes at 50 times that pace it would take 64 days divided by 50 (or only a couple) of days to double on futures indexes. Those are the extremes of making money.

    To double in 8 days takes 10% a day profit and you would have to have enough contracts so that you could continually be sure that you always applied all the capital. That is a messy and difficult endeavor. I like everyone else am a sloppy person with cash. It is just swept into whatever at the brokers and you either pull it or advance the contracts occassionally.

    For your example of doubling in 8 days, simply calculate, based on your contract margin requirement what 10% of margin is and divide the value of a point or tick into it to see what # of points or ticks that is for a given futures index. You will find that it represents making a number of trades per day and you would have to have a method that allowed you to be in the market when it was trending.


    I know you have volunteered your financial info here. I haven't done that as yet. After Labor day, my guess is that the focus here for me will be doing real time trading. we will have aback up set of documents that go from beginner to expert by then. We will pick some kind of logging method for that and then you can see how it goes. When the set up is picked for doing it, as is usual, there will be some downside comments about whether it is for real. Usually I post ahead of the market for those downside type folks so they can get used to knowing what is coming up just before I trade. This is not the same as statements but it does allow for coattail trading. That is, anyone who wants can do the trades. They do get personal financial statements from that. better than being a copycat and making money, I feel, it is best to learn to do it for oneself.

    As an alternative to your request for my financial statement, i could give you a person's statement that is 6 months long and shows trades averagting 11.1% and an average duration of 6.6 days. Mine are not as good as that one because mine only show me trading. A statement from someone whol earned to do what I do by emails via an intermediate party is better. Another helpful aspect of that statement is that he used software that he made to do do the trading. I give it The software) to those who want it so they can do trading on their own using it. After we spent a day (4 1/2 hours) together for the first time, he did improve. The improvement, given some time to see it, time was about 20%. There is always room for improvement.

    Your comment that I should provide the questions and anwsers for your last post would go like this:

    You could ask: Is there a good example of someone doing what you do? Answer yes.

    What kind of example? Answer. I will send you a six month statement given to me and the floppy of the software used so you can use to do the same thing.

    So far in your comments to me from about day 1 onward, you are showing a little edge here and there. For the last forty years I have been giving back to the system because I was certainly given to prior to that. Get the picture from here on in that I am game for anything. Try getting past the fluff and zeroing in on doing some work.
     
    #79     Jul 24, 2003
  10. Bleak, but not as bleak as you make it. Basic strategy dictates that you should stand after the first picture card (12 vs 6), but this still leaves us with a negative EV (expected value) of about 15 cents (for each dollar bet) as opposed to a positive EV of about 68 cents if the aces were split. Were I to be standing behind this hapless player (I always quit playing blackjack when I'm down to only one unit for this particular reason ... cough... splutter...), I am sure that we would be able to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement whereby I would bankroll his split in return for a percentage of the hand.

    The above is all academic, however, and your point is well made.
     
    #80     Jul 24, 2003