Discussion in 'Psychology' started by Pabst, Aug 17, 2003.
Surf, I think he's an ancient 24 now!
and he's still making money by the way.
yes, i think you are right ! still amazing insight
Registered: Jul 2002
07-11-02 05:26 AM
This is only a test!
Anyone who contemplates trading should ask themselves one simple question....."Why Do I Want To Trade?" There are many wrong answers to this question, and only one right one.....
"I Want To Find Out Who I Really Am"
When you trade your monitor will do a funny thing. It will become a mirror. A special type of mirror. A mirror that reflects your self-confidence, your self-esteem, your self-worth. The numbers and lines you see on your screen are just that, numbers and lines. Market information. At your choosing, when you decide to become part of those numbers and lines (putting on/off the trade) a sort of test begins. A test about you.
If you see the test as threatening, you will feel threatened. If you see the test as war, you will be engaging in war. If you see the test as one more failure, you will fail. If you see the test as the need to prove yourself right, you will administered the pain of being wrong. If you see the test as certainty, you will be rudely introduced to uncertainty. If you see the test as a battle of wills, you will sacrifice your soul. If you see the test as fear or loss of money, you will be giving away your scared money.
If you see and believe the test to be an exchange of information, you now become the one to confirm or deny information. If you believe the test to be one of giving up what you want in order to get it, you will get it. Get it?
There is an irony in trading of both price and time. It is exactly what you have to give of yourself in order to trade it with understanding.
Registered: Jul 2002
07-11-02 05:27 AM
Candle Trader a thought for you
The learning process can be painful. The unlearning process can be even more painful. In between the two is where the successful trader lies.
In trading, learning costs. You will never be paid for the learning you will do. The application of what you have learned will cost you even more. Learning simply gives you the right to unlearn. Most traders feel it necessary to learn all they can, everything they can. Learning becomes compulsory. Unlearning, if it is ever applied, or for that matter even recognized, is deemed a distant after thought. The learning trader believes what and how much they can learn will be directly proportional to how successful they will become. The trader becomes rigid with rules as a result of learning. What the trader learns becomes part of the trader. A little nearer, a little dearer.
Enter the market. The market can also learn. But who teaches the market? Why the traders do of course! But what the market does so much better than the trader is unlearn. With so many "teachers" and their agendas, the market continually evolves and evokes change. It is the trader with heightened awareness of markets who also unlearns, along with the markets. Learning costs. Unlearning pays.
Registered: Sep 2001
08-20-02 06:21 AM
Trading is about the process, not the proceeds. It is the process that creates proceeds from the market. It is the proceeds that create prisoners of the market.
As A Trader Thinketh
Registered: Sep 2001
10-23-02 06:55 PM
Rogue, this time you went too far for me...
There are two perspectives from which a trader can position themselves. The âShorter Perspectiveâ is seeing the market as it relates to oneself. The âLonger Perspectiveâ is seeing the market as it relates to itself.
The degree by which a trader can detach them self from their opinion and the level of conviction they hold of that opinion, is as close or as far the trader is from finding cognitive analysis beyond the fundamental or technical variety.
The real conflict in having âDiffering Opinionsâ stems from the inability to accept the opinions of others, not from the apparent efforts required to defend yours.
The trader who chooses not accept the âConsensus Of Perceptionâ, (the marketâs opinion), will forever struggle with the injustices done by perhaps the greatest pardonable looter of both time and money one shall ever meet.
Actually EntropyTrader, if my memory serves me correctly this was written by rogue trader and so was the "thought for candle" one - I remember when rogue trader wrote them, it was the winter of last year.
You know what is kind of funny, while I had a working methodolgy and was making money I thought Publias stuff and other zen type stuff, while well written and thought provoking, was really mostly useless for making money. I thought it was a crutch or a drug that allowed poor traders to continue trading a losing methodology because it wasnt that they or their method sucked it was their state of mind. I thought for winning traders it was superfluous. Today upon rereading this stuff I was beginning to say yeah thats good insight. This shook me up.
I mean--- when you know what you are doing the market is not a mirror it is a cash register. When it is a mirror you may be in trouble. You know what lately it has been a mirror. I had best make it a cash register again.
I also enjoy Publias stuff.
Another member worth reading is vegasoul.
Here are some quotes from his posts (some from Trader's Roundtable forum):
"IMHO, a robust system makes very little assumptions about the nature of the market environment and use only very universal and general rules in its design"
"trading is such a emotionally painful experience that I personally can't imagine anyone doing it other than for monetary gain..."
"If you believe the market are fractal in nature and self-similar across timeframe,
which is to basically saying the statiscal properties of the market is the same across all timeframes,
then there shouldn't be any difference between longterm or shorterm trading and we should favor short-term trading because it gives more oppununity to apply our edge.
But of course, we know that's not accurate because there is commission and slippage problems in the real world.
I think in most day-trading system, these trading expenses makes more than 30-50% of the net profit.
It's not impossible, it just mean you need a very significant edge to overcome the slippage and commission"
"Trading is all about enduring pain and perserverance...
Think about this..why do you need discipline at all?
it's human nature to avoid pain and run from adversity
and discipline is about embracing the pain
by taking small loss and admitting you are wrong
and keeping the faith during a drawdown...
I don't think there is anything enjoyable about that..."
"Most TA doesn't work
elliot wave,gann, patterns, oscillators..
none of it survive under backtesting (assuming it could objectively backtested)
the only TA that has any validity is trend-following.. ma and breakouts..
Without volatility...no strategy can make money.."
"trading requires a lot LUCK
Having a edge is important , but unlike blackjack or some game where
the rules are FIXED and odds can be calculatated mathematically
the edge is not consistent in the market and sooner of later it loses its "sharpness"
I think LUCK still plays a very important role in the markets.."
topic: why johnny can't trade?
"because johnny is only human...
and trading is against human nature...
it's a intrinsic human nature to eat all you want
which is why you need DISCPLINE to go on a diet...
the same with trading...
although I wouldn't have the numbers
but I have a feeling 90% of the number of people who tried to lose weight fails..
Only a small percentage have the commitment, focus, discipline to achieve their goals..
the same with trading..."
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