it's a different type of prop firm, those prop firms are local trades pooling capital to trade firm capital. Name one firm that allows overnight positions and is hiring now? And did anyone here from elite trader applied for the position and get hired? the prop trading in many banks and hedge funds operate in a different sytem from your 'local' trading system. And why are you laughing, this is serious discussions.
Your the one who is acting childish and foolish. You are shitting me. And you still talk like this. Oh man. LOL. [/B][/QUOTE]
Seriously, you do not have the right "lingo" down. You keep using the term "local" which in the past referred to a independent trader on the floor trading his own money, i.e. a local in the bond pit. Traders at prop firms are not referred to as "locals". As for who is hiring? I honestly don't understand your question. Are you talking about one of the "true prop" firms I mentioned like Chopper. Are they hiring? Or are you talking about firms like Bright who DO let you hold over night positions. Obviously Bright doesn't hire you, you provide your own capital, but you can hold over night positions. What makes this conversation with you difficult is you keep mixing and matching different things together. And you are not using the right "lingo". So I have to piece back your statements and figure out what you are really trying to ask and then answer that question and that is becoming tiresome. So let's try this one more time. Ask a very specific and precise question about what you are looking for with as much detail as possible and I'll give you the most honest answer you will get on this board.
It's obvious you two have different backgrounds and are seeing things differently based on your backgrounds. In my opinion, Maverick does seem to have more experience on this issue. But attacking tradingmanual's English and calling him 19 is really unnecessary and is rather childish. I'm not knowledgeable enough to add useful comments so I'll just observe.
Listen, if a trader has to put down $25,000 capital contribution plus pay commission plus pay software fee plus pay desk fee, it's not a job it's business partnership plus pay the prop operator percentage profit you aint' giving anyone a job and is by definition not prop trading more like local trader. QUOTE]Quote from Maverick74: Seriously, you do not have the right "lingo" down. You keep using the term "local" which in the past referred to a independent trader on the floor trading his own money, i.e. a local in the bond pit. Traders at prop firms are not referred to as "locals". As for who is hiring? I honestly don't understand your question. Are you talking about one of the "true prop" firms I mentioned like Chopper. Are they hiring? Or are you talking about firms like Bright who DO let you hold over night positions. Obviously Bright doesn't hire you, you provide your own capital, but you can hold over night positions. What makes this conversation with you difficult is you keep mixing matching different things together. And you are not using the right "lingo". So I have to piece back your statements and figure out what you are really trying to ask and then answer that question and that is becoming tiresome. So let's try this one more time. Ask a very specific and precise question about what you are looking for with as much detail as possible and I'll give you most honest answer you will get on this board. [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE] I never said otherwise. Look, there are two types of prop firms. I have discussed this at length on this message board. There are the "true prop firms" where they back you 100%. And then there are the firms where you back yourself. Both are very very different models. I have debated this topic relentlessly with Don Bright on here for years. Neither one of these are really true jobs in any sense. Some guys prefer to back themselves and enjoy the freedoms that come along with that. Other guys want to "work" for someone. They are very different jobs. I know plenty of traders in both areas. We can have that discussion. But I never said anytime on this board that trading for Bright or any other deposit firm is a job. In fact, that is precisely why guys choose to go there is because they don't want a JOB.
Listen, I maybe brash and forward and at times impolite, that's my demeanor. On the plus side, you get a straight talking guy that is probably going to give more straight facts then anyone on this board. The downside is my tolerance for bullshit is really low and I'm going to deal with that very directly. I don't sell myself as a perfect person and I'm not on this board selling religion. I'm here to deal with facts.
Hey Maverick, a little off topic here, but based on capital allocation I'm wondering what percentage of your firm's money is put into automated systems (that require minimal human interference). And for the manual traders, what's the typical minimum take home salary, after all expenses, annually? I'm guessing that $3-5 millions are the exceptions rather than the norm. (I would like to use those numbers as something to strive for in my small retail trading account.) Thanks for your input.
The 3 to 5 million figure I mentioned earlier is what good traders made at Worldco over 10 years ago. Market is very different now. Much tougher. I honestly don't think you can categorize income based on whether someone is automated or not. As I said earlier to ES, automation is going to do nothing for you if you don't have a structural edge. If you have a nagative expectancy strategy all automating it will do is turn the strategy over more and more and increase the losses. In general, most prop firms that automate are either market making in options or trading stat correrlation. They are not trading moving average crossovers. If you have a high frequency strategy you better be getting rock bottom commisions.