Liquid options with low spread

Discussion in 'Options' started by statist, Nov 19, 2022.

  1. destriero

    destriero

    And ofc you wouldn't do it in unlinked accounts as you would not benefit from the arb-haircut. Ostensibly you would be long in one account and short in another with full margin treatment required for both components which blows it up.

    You can leverage tremendous tax-arb in this thing due to the small haircut for the arb. It's illegal AF in the US if you're implementing it as I have proposed. It's also complex enough to escape tax-authority scrutiny in most cases.

    Audit? Go into crypto and run to non-extradition country and trade vol on crypto.
     
    #91     Nov 25, 2022
  2. spy

    spy

    Montenegro here I come!
     
    #92     Nov 25, 2022
    destriero likes this.
  3. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    For someone wealthy enough to “be a client” contemplating tax jurisdictions there are lots of legal ways to do this with insurance wrappers.

     
    #93     Nov 25, 2022
    destriero likes this.
  4. Overnight

    Overnight

    LOL!

    Dest asks "Why did the chicken cross the road?"

    Option trader answers "I don't know, why did it?"

    Dest say "Dumbass, there is no chicken. Your theta decayed it to zero value" and shoots the Option trader in the ass.
     
    #94     Nov 25, 2022
    fullautotrading likes this.
  5. statist

    statist


    Of course you are more or less certain of a win in the no tax jurisdiction unless the underlying is flat the whole time or your miss the time to realize the loss . As soon as the market moves in either direction you win on one leg. That is the leg you realize the win, now you have a realized win in the no tax jurisdiction. After reopening you have a market neutral portfolio with an unrealized loss. Et voila.

    Maybe you miss the time aspect. It is not different accounts I am talking about (would be illiegal to not report one account). For example 2022 Tax free jurisdiction, 2023 Tax resident in tax jurisdiction with capital gains tax. You can choose when to realize your gains.

    I can even do better in some jurisdictions, where the money I get from opening the option is in the tax free jurisdiction i.e. no tax to be paid for premium received. If I close the position I have to buy the option and this buy is treated 100% as a loss. Some jurisdictions threat opening and closing an option as completly different trades.
     
    #95     Nov 25, 2022
  6. statist

    statist

    You do not have to move continuously. This is called perpetous traveller, where you do not stay long enough in a country to be taxed at all. Again not working for the US Guys as you are one of two nations that tax based on nationality.

    Lets say you move every 5 years you realize EVERY Profit while in Panama and harvest the tax loss while being back in the tax jurisdiction. You also realize every loss you have while beeing in the bad jurisdiction. Some shares go up some shares go down over 5 years you get the picture. You need the tax loss because you get dividends every year and sometimes some of the shares you own get bought out ie you have to realize a win that you cannot escape while beeing in the "bad" jurisdiction.

    We are talking about individuals that usually only reside in one county not about companies or tax fraud where you have an unreported offshore account.

    Regarding the risk aspect. I would like to take in a huge option premium i.e. sell an option deep deep in the money. That is good for the tax treatment but more important I need this big cushion so that I do not run a big risk in case of a 30% market move in either direction. So I would need at least a strike that is 30-40% away from current prices. I think a move to the downside is a much bigger risk. I cannot imagine a scenario where the market goes up by 40% in 2 weeks but have several scenarios where it goes down 50% or more in 2 weeks.
     
    #96     Nov 25, 2022
  7. statist

    statist

    Currently planing on having the legs in the same account due to possible margin restraints.

    Please elaborate how I can use OTM options to achieve a market neutral portfolio without any risk? Buying options is not working in the tax jurisdiction. I "need" a big option premium so that I have a win in the no tax jurisdiction. The win from each OTM options would be very small or I would need to buy a lot and therefore higher commisions not a big concern but nevertheless.
     
    #97     Nov 25, 2022
  8. statist

    statist


    I would need strikes like 2400 and 4420 to feel comfortable risk wise (30%). The strikes are far to close and I would run a suicidal risk with those strikes, I agree.
     
    #98     Nov 25, 2022
  9. statist

    statist

    How can you pass this judgement without knowing the jurisdiction we are talking about? Insurance wrappers cost a lot of money i.e. 1-3% of notional and are not working in several jurisdiction. As explained several times this setup is completly legal wheras insurance wrappers are in some jurisdictions tax crimes.
     
    #99     Nov 26, 2022
  10. There is no road either :)
     
    #100     Nov 26, 2022