Life after Proprietary Trading?

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by ethanbrooke, Oct 13, 2001.

  1. My MBA taught me after spending so much time with a bunch of people who wanted to be brand managers, that I had to find an opportunity that allowed me the independence and financial upside that would let me avoid the big corporations all my life. So far so good. The MBA was worth every penny to enlighten myself about what was going on out in the real world with joe lunchbucket and joe briefcase. My business card (why I have one I don't know -- I was constantly asked for it and I wanted to win one of those free lunches at Pizza Hut when you drop in your card) says simply Proprietor.
     
    #91     Jun 20, 2002
  2. Turlo

    Turlo

    Well stated!
     
    #92     Jun 20, 2002
  3. newatthis, what does an MBA teach you about the life of 'Joe Lunchbucket?'
     
    #93     Jun 21, 2002
  4. gnome

    gnome

    Who went to school to be a trader?
    I hustled pool, played poker, was a professional bowler and a forensic chemist. Stumbled into trading 20 years ago, and now am resolved to the fact that I'm NEVER gonna be able to get a real job!

    Most important schooling I had was 7th grade algebra.

    Who know how and why we end up here?
     
    #94     Jun 21, 2002
  5. trader99

    trader99

    An MBA doesn't apply much to trading because it's too "light weight". It's a lot of fluff. Having been to one to the top schools in the country, I see the MBA program as really fluffy though "fun" and light on the brain.

    You learn more skills studying math,physics, compsci, engineering that can actually be readily apply to trading. Just look at any job postings nowadays. Quants are in GREATER demand than MBAs. And not only that, phds in math,physics, cs make MORE than your average MBA.

    For example, here's a recent posting:

    Title: Sr. Quantitative Programmer- Equities Trading
    Skills: Equities C++ Modeling VWAP Unix


    Date Posted: 06/14/02
    Location: New York, NY
    Area code: 212


    Tax Term: Full time
    Pay: Upto 400K
    Length: Fulltime

    Job Description:

    Major investment firm is currently growing its
    analytical capabilities within its equities division.
    Develop various analytical tools (VWAP,
    sorting/execution algorithms, and models)to support a
    growing electronic trading and program trading
    businesses. Candidate will also develop nonlinear
    optimization techniques to address intraday portfolio
    optimization and rebalancing.
     
    #95     Jun 21, 2002
  6. This sounds like the treatment for a Farrelly Brothers movie...
     
    #96     Jun 21, 2002
  7. trader99

    trader99

    Yeah, that's probably true to some extent but not totally true. Really smart people want to "create thing".

    I was an ex-quant for institutions and now a trader. And a lot of quants come from really extremely academic backgrounds. Like ex-professors from top schools or top notch flawless academic credentials and phds. And some of them find the use of their talents in quant finance as "boring" or "underutilized" and they go back to academia and teach after a few years of making 300-600K. Which is HUGE for a professor who is accusomted to making what 70-150K/yr at a top school.

    But I think a good chunk of them stayed on because like all humans they are GREEDY! Who wouldn't stay on , getting progressively more money every year building quant models for wall st and hedge funds? I mean just starting out with no expereicne they could easy get $80K + bonus right out of a phd program with NO financial market experience, but just to build math models and learning the finance along the way. And in a mere 5-7yrs, they can 5x-10x that amount and making half a mil to $750K once they become sr quants. Geez, why go back?
     
    #97     Jun 21, 2002
  8. trader99

    trader99

    Yep. For short-term intraday trading, I think "Street Smarts" is better than ANY ANY academic credentials! Period.

    I've done both (institutional and prop trading). I think intraday trading is about speed and reading the tape. TA, etc. That, I think will never be taught in a formal setting. And can only be gained through experiences(losses and gains) haha
     
    #98     Jun 21, 2002
  9. gnome

    gnome

    Farrelly Brothers... that's a good one.

    Semi-retired now, I look back and see how little I accomplished. Still, there's a lot of satisfaction in making trading a career. And we all know how difficult that is.
    My wife's an MD and she's totally oblivious to the financial world (except the SPENDING part.) Making your living in the financial markets takes something special, and I admire the "real" pros... the one's who build capital over the years and who never blow-up, wipe out their clients' assets, and have to ask someone for more money to get back in business. They can't teach you that in B-School or anywhere else.
     
    #99     Jun 21, 2002
  10. Robert A. Green ,

    You make some very valid points. Not all LLC's or prop firms are the same. At LWS we feel traders should put up a significant capital contribution, of at least $25,000 or more . Short term trading is of course high risk and only risk capital should be used for day trading or any short term trading strategies. We do not take any traders(LLC members) who are not suitable for short term trading and who are undercapitalized.

    I would suggest all prospective traders at LLC's or Prop firms read the LLC agreements and/or employment contacts and discuss their agreements with a tax professional or legal advisor
    if there is something that the trader does not understand.
    At LWS, our firm is setup up and the LLC members receive a K-1 that should receive tax treatment as ordinary income.

    The LLC structure offers benefits to professional traders . The LLC structure is not for everyone , so each trader must see if the
    LLC structure works for them as far as margin, tax benefits and
    capital required .



    Gene Weissman
    Lieber & Weissman Sec., LLC
    gweissman@stocktrade.net
     
    #100     Jul 5, 2002