were for making baby formula. LOL. You useful idiots will never change. How are things in the land of cheese and smelly women, BrainNoMore?
And how would we, in the US, feel is a foreign nation decided to attack us because of some "gut feel"? How would you feel if you lived in a major city (NYC, LA, ...) and someone starting bombing the crap out of it with innocent people being killed? Remember, Blix and crew WERE making progress and were getting some co-operation ... maybe not optimal but it was enough IMO that we had no reason at that time to initiate a war. And I remember someone, I think it was Rumsfeld, who stated something to the effect that Iraq had started the war ... what a joke ... sadly we'll always have politicians ... and I suspect we'll continue to have deceit, corruption and worse amongst that group.
hapa, it's time to give up that argument. Like a bad trade. Take the stop. Waiting for the trade to prove you right will only cost more... Reasons for attack? More Earlier LIES exposed: Wolfowitz says major reason for Iraq war was to get U.S. troops out of Saudi Arabia May 30th MSNBC ---do you remember months back all the arguments on TV and ofc here in these forums? âThe war was sold on the basis of what was described as a pre-emptive strike, âHit Saddam before he hits us,ââ âIt is now quite clear that Saddam did not have anything with which to hit us in the first place.â http://msnbc.com/news/919535.asp?0dm=N13ON The scum is getting unraveled. But who will bring back the lives of our soldiers (body count now up to 160-170) and who will bring back the thousands of innocent lost children, men and women in Iraq. How would you like to be on the receiving end of this whole mess? If you are not subscribing to this thread few of the postings, look at the $$$$$ involved. http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?postid=263769#post263769 "So what justifies the attack? Look some things are plain and clear. They have the second known largest oil reserves on this planet. It costs 1.5$ per barrel to produce it. It reaches the retail consumer at 30$ per barrel. Known reserves 120 BILLION barrels. Estimated unexplored could bring up the total friggin capacity to 280 BILLION BARRELS. You do the math. Trillions upon trillions of $$$ to the pockets of few Oil cos. What's few hundred dead of our brothers and sisters, and few thousand innocent children women and men of theirs? Shouldn't their surviving family members, have deep hate and willing to blow us up??? But hey! the common street thug kills the old lady for $50 We kill few thousand for many trillion dollars.. Using your business mind I'd say it's a damn good return. RIGHT??? Not to mention that with all this moola you can buy all the laws you want, put all the congressmen in your pocket, have the media cover anything you want, and the story goes on... And then why ask why the world hate us. Look man I have nothing against you personally or the rest of the warmongering herd. I hate to see intelligent people getting the wool pulled over their head and losing their critical thinking. You are clinging on media words and gov't puffery. And you neglect the facts? ON NO EVIDENSE we kept hearing hours every day about how Iraq was tons of WMD's and it's a huge threat to poor little US. There was not a national channel I could switch without listening the same rhetoric for months on. Where are they now?mad: The Oil Shrub Mafia and Company, has possibly made this the most hated nation on this planet. We used to stand for something...... "
My feelings were fairly well expressed by an article entitled "The war's feeble opponents clutch at a last straw," which I posted on another thread. The author reviews several aspects of the entire war debate and the controversy over WMDs, then finally accepts, for purposes of argument, the idea that no WMDs will be found in Iraq: The article itself is available at: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3284-696788,00.html A discussion follows on the rest of that thread (beginning around here, http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14558&perpage=6&pagenumber=41, with the usual digressions). At one point, I summed up my position as follows: (I should add here that when I said the existence of deliverable WMDs was not a "critical issue," I meant in relation to the justification for removing Saddam's regime. Obviously, the existence or use of WMDs would be, to say the least, rather significant in other respects.) Trader556 later misconstrued these remarks - in the manner that makes arguing with him such a fatiguing, maddening, and usually pointless exercise. Similarly, as you will see if you read the thread, when I provided the full transcripts of Paul Wolfowitz's remarks on this same subject, in order to counter another set of recent anti-war distortions, he accused me of "regurgitat[ing] Wolfowitz's garbage." As you can see, in yet another display of blithe ignorance and imperviousness to evidence and argument, he reiterates the same phony claims above. As for the WMD argument specifically, Trader556 seems to believe that not knowing the "whole story" equates with not knowing anything or not knowing enough. What I meant was simply that we do not have the complete picture of Saddam's WMD program. I remain confident, however, that what was and remains irrefutable was more than enough - beginning with Saddam's long history of defiance, as in his flagrant disregard for the ceasefire agreements that saved him and his security forces in '91 at the end of the first Gulf War. He was required to disarm and to provide evidence of having done so, and, over the course of 12 years, did neither. Those agreements and related UN resolutions addressed not just WMDs but other matters as well, including the use of repressive force against his own people (esp. the Shia and Kurds). His violations in the latter area were to the tune of a few 100,000 victims, many of whose corpses are now turning up in the approximately 150 mass graves that have so far been discovered. At this point, the anti-war crowd is full-throatedly going on and on, as ever, with typical misstatements, distortions, and premature rhetorical ejaculations, in much the same manner as before and during the war about, for instance, the impending military quagmire and environmental and humanitarian catastrophe that never occurred. Eventually, when more information emerges, and when the 1000+ US investigators who were sent to Iraq only on Friday have completed their work, we'll have a chance to put together a fuller portrait of what happened regarding the WMD's. I have no doubt that if the facts do not agree with the doves' pre-judgments, they will be called lies and exaggerations. In an op-ed piece that appears today in the Daily Telegraph, Saddam biographer and newspaper editor Con Coughlin addresses these issues squarely. After patiently explaining why the possible existence of usable WMDs was not the primary cause of war, re-examining Saddam's own contribution to his demise, and reviewing what was known about Saddam's WMD program prior to the war, he concludes as follows: full text at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;$sessionid$GUSRTXXGY4FHRQFIQMFSFGGAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/opinion/2003/06/01/do0102.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/06/01/ixportal.html
for going through the trouble again of posting arguments I am in total agreement with. Personally I'm tired of arguing about this war - it has been debated about ad nauseum on other threads; everything LiverNoMore, dohohi, and trader556 state are regurgitations from older posts and already been expressed by candle and others. In a nutshell, I feel our President is doing his job to keep our country as safe as possible by going after our enemies instead of waiting for them to come to us. To those of you who believe our Iraqi venture will make terrorists want to attack us even more, I say bullshit, they didn't need any more motivation than they already had. 9/11 and the reaction to it in the Middle East should have removed any doubt as to the nature and intent of the threat we are facing. So if you anti-warriors want to continue to believe the conspiracy theories, be my guest. The it's-all-about-oil posts are always good for a laugh.
I wasn't regurgitating previous posts. Things that I have written may well have been written by others in other posts, but that's only because the same issues are there to be seen by anyone with their eyes even partially open. One more thing I will add that was discussed by Noam Chomsky: the fact that the notion of "pre-emptive strike", as used by the current U.S. administration, is a perversion and violation of the Geneva Conventions. Particularly when it turns out that there were no WMD in Iraq nor, clearly in their absence, any intention to use them (as they were nonexistent) on the United States. And so, for all of you saying it doesn't matter whether they find WMD or not, I say it most surely does matter. I refer you to Article 51 of the U.N. Charter And if you're personally tired of arguing about the war, no-one's requiring you to read this thread!
Ofcourse there are no WMD's. Now, those who supported the war will say, "well Saddam needed to go anyway, he will have killed more people than the war." IMO, they will never find Saddamn or Bin Laden. Can't find WMD's? Just show a crowd of cheering people in Iraq to find support and say "see I told ya so", that way the stupid american public will forget the whole WMD issue. Aren't they saying the same thing for Iran now? And quit sympathizing for bush, saying he took a lot of beating and pressure and jeapordized his role as a president and blah blah etc....there are enough so called patriots in this country with no common sense that will always support bush no matter what he does.
Demonize Saddam Hussein, get the country foamed up about Iraq, and they'll forget about the fact that after dropping all those bombs on Afghanistan and killing thousands of civilians, we never did manage to find Osama Bin Hidden. Now, when they can neither turn up Saddam's WMD nor Saddam himself, just start going after some other country (Should We Go After Iran Next? is even a goddamn Chit Chat thread on here!) so all the dumbass flag-waving "nukem all" Americans can forget about our failing to find these things in Iraq. The American public proudly supports George W.M.D. Bush because our society suffers from an intense case of Attention Deficit Disorder.
Wolfowitz Admits Iraq War Was Planned Two Days After 9/11 by Jason Leopold June 02, 2003 http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=3714 Now wait a friggin minute Didn't the media immediately after 9/11 ( what was it, a day or 2?) stated the identities of the 19 hijackers as: 15 from Saudi Arabia and the rest from Egypt, Afganistan and Algeria or Maroco? (not to mention that FBI found no links but took 19 months, another thread going on that) Soooooo why the attack on Iraq from even back then?? All the lies about WMD's media spin. Keep repeating 9/11 terrorism and Iraq in every speech. stupefied public thinks,-- 71% latest polls-- that Iraq is imminent threat and partially or totally involved with 9/11 Wake up America, we've been duped and running scared again! "It's a scream to watch the Bushites now try to squirm out of the inconvenient reality that they've found no masses of WMDs in Iraq. Lately they've tried to claim every slingshot, trailor, empty casing, and barbeque pit they come across as "proof" of Saddam's WMD program. But when launching his Iraq Attack, George didn't talk about such small stuff â he spoke specifically about a "mushroom cloud" that Saddam would ignite in America. The Bushites also flatly asserted that Saddam had 500 tons of mustard gas, 25,000 liters of anthrax, 30,000 rockets to deliver chemical weapons, dozens of scud missiles, 18 biological warfare factories, all sorts of long-range missiles and other WMDs â that now can't be found. " http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15995 A wait a minute! the real threat was that balsa wood remote controlled plane. Hey, where is max401 these days? Warmongering clan got him banned? Friggin amazing! A child can build up a better poison delivery system from here: http://www.towerhobbies.com/ Btw, the new heli Futaba digital remotes kick a$$ Fully agree with AAAinthebeltway's quote: "I suspect this will be a scandal that will make Enron look like a parking ticket" When the whole friigin fiasco unfolds, Watergate and Iran Contra will look like a child's play