Lieber & Weissman

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by ButterMilk, Nov 8, 2001.

  1. Do anyone know anything about Lieber & Weissman? I know Gene Weissman contributes good thoughts to our forum, but what about doing business with them.
  2. liltrdr


    Do they back traders? Like really hungry college students with little or no capital? How about it Gene :)
  3. At the present time, we accept new traders who make a capital contributions to our L.L.C. We do back experienced traders with a
    track record , who trade at our offices. Most of our top traders contribute their own capital to our L.L.C.

    Gene Weissman
    Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C.
  4. WarEagle

    WarEagle Moderator

    What kind of pro trader would be experienced but not have any capital? Seems if you have one, you should have the other too. (I'm assuming "experience" means a successful track record).
  5. Your point is well taken. Most skilled traders would put up their
    own capital and keep 100% of what they make. That's what I did
    when I worked for myself on the floor and now in my firm.

    Shonfeld, Spear,Leeds & Kellogg & Market Making firms back traders. The firm gets 50 to 90% of what the traders make. The
    reason traders stay at these firms is because of the large capital,
    infracstructure or order flow(Market Makers) that these firms provide.Some traders trade better with firm capital then if they are trading their own capital. Some traders are afraid to trade with their own capital and do better with a small payout from a large firm. Shonfelds top traders make seven figures , so 30% of
    4,000,000 is a nice living. A top trader may have 10,000,000 or more in buying power to work with at a large firm. I personally would rather keep 100% of my own profits and not have the pressure to perform with a firms money. Everyone feels differently
    about working for themselves or someone else. I always felt better working or trading for myself.

    Gene Weissman
    Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C.
  6. WarEagle

    WarEagle Moderator

    Ok, thanks Gene...that makes sense.

  7. liltrdr


    It must be a whole different ball game to trade 10 million intraday. How do you trade that kind of size?
  8. If you trade at a large market making firm or you are a proprietary trader for a hedge fund, you can't really day trade like you do with with a direct access order execution platform. You have to carry positions and trade against your positions. The max you can really day trade is 5000 share positions(NYSE stocks) or somewhat larger sizes using ETF's(SPY or QQQ). If you trade large
    size orders, you might hedge your QQQ against NASDAQ futures
    or Buy Stock Option Puts against your IBM stock turning the position into a synthetic call(Long 10,000 IBM Long 100 IBM Put).
    You might trade matched pairs (Long F Short GM) if you have a
    matched pair in the same industry you like , reducing market risk overnight. If you are a Market Maker or Specialist, your postions may be a result of taking on "inventory" from the public and you
    will have to trade out of your positions. If you end up long, you may hold your postions and sell out on rallies. Most specialists or
    Market makers would like to go home "flat" , since you want to trade the Bid-Ask spread with as little market risk as possible.

    Gene Weissman
    Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C.
  9. Good review, Gene. How many times have we heard someone call us and say "well I have been trading for years and I am a "super experienced" trader, but I want to be backed?" We feel better about backing our new interns from the Universities who spend a couple of semesters with us (with course credit for them) than we do trying to sponsor those "experienced" traders. There are always special circumstances, but very few. I usually ask "if you are planning on making $250,000 / year, why would you want to give me half of that in lieu of only putting up a "token" amount." (I realize that it is not "token" to many younger people, ...lest anyone take me wrong here on the board. :) Heck it costs more than that to put a kid through a year of college these days, and it's not like they are spending the money, it's still theirs (if they don't go crazy during the learning curve).
  10. You can't teach an old dog new tricks(most of the time). I would agree that a student who is taught the right way would have a better chance of being successful. The markets are constantly changing and you have to adjust your trading with market conditions. Most good traders trade with their own funds.

    Gene Weissman
    #10     Nov 9, 2001